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Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

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Re: Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

#31

Post by cooldeal »

huggyface wrote: post #25
mauriciob wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data mining? I have no problem with that. Even the grocery store I go does that. I'm not exactly OK when they say they can "reproduce, modify, create derivative works (...), publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content." Also, I wouldn't call my resume a "critical file". The source of the work I create (e.g. software), is a "critical file" if they can just use it however they want.

I'm not exactly OK when they say they can "reproduce, modify, create derivative works (...), publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content." Ignore the hysterical reactions by those with an agenda. That section of the ToU explicitly applies to information that you explicitly make public (such as posting on Google+).

Maybe you can point to the part where it makes clear that the clause applies to only things made explicitly public instead of some handwaving about people with an agenda?

These are matters of law and when it comes to a court, what is clearly written down matters more than what your assumptions are.

Lets take a (very unlikely) hypothetical case of you uploading a movie script to Google Drive, and as you're shopping it around to studios, Google makes a new service called Google Studios and uses the script for free. You sue them and they point to that clause.

Which part of the agreement can you point to, to prove to the judge that Google violated your rights?

Re: Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

#32

Post by jeffool »

eli wrote: post #14
hackinthebochs wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it's not clear the license to "use, create derivatives, etc" is solely for the purpose of providing you access to your data worldwide. Using, say, your vacation photos in an advertisement seems within the scope of the TOS. Google could be clearer if they chose to be. I believe it is intentionally vague.

The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. That doesn't seem intentionally vague to me. I suppose a restriction on using vacation photos in their ads would be nice... But is that really what people are concerned about? That doesn't seem very likely or threatening.

The concern is that, say, a musician is in the process of making a new song. Google sees this, and releases the song shortly before the artist releases it themselves, and for free! Now what is the artist to do?

The likelihood? Small. But if it happens, you'll have Google befitting from that artist's work, and the artist less able to do so. The artist would have given away his right to sue, possibly unknowingly (because who reads TOS'?!) And of course Google won't pay him. Not because they don't want to, but because they know it'll open the floodgates of similar claims!

Re: Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

#33

Post by jeffool »

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #19

Does it really matter? I get google mail, with 6+ gigs of quota. I can make free calls via google's email website. I have a google phone number from GVoice. If my phone service is deactivated, I still get calls and texts and transcription. All I need then is to log in via a free wifi. I have all my contacts saved from my phone, along with free recording and voicemail transcription. I have a full history of what I've…

FYI, your Google Voice calls are using your minutes and won't continue if you stop your plan. (Unless you're using some kind of work around.) Maybe I misread... Just thought you should know.

Good luck with the job hunt! I'm in the exact same boat!

Re: Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

#34

Post by huggyface »

cooldeal wrote: post #31
huggyface wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not exactly OK when they say they can "reproduce, modify, create derivative works (...), publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content." Ignore the hysterical reactions by those with an agenda. That section of the ToU explicitly applies to information that you explicitly make public (such as posting on Google+).

Maybe you can point to the part where it makes clear that the clause applies to only things made explicitly public instead of some handwaving about people with an agenda? These are matters of law and when it comes to a court, what is clearly written down matters more than what your assumptions are. Lets take a (very unlikely) hypothetical case of you uploading a movie script to Google Drive, and as you're shopping it…

>instead of some handwaving about people with an agenda

I'm sorry but when people are intentionally cherry picking incendiary parts of one ToS while intentionally ignoring those in another, that speaks to an agenda. The reporting has not been more clear.

>Lets take a (very unlikely) hypothetical case of you uploading a movie script to Google Drive, and as you're shopping it around to studios, Google makes a new service called Google Studios and uses the script for free. You sue them and they point to that clause.

"Some of our Services allow you to submit content. You retain ownership of any intellectual property rights that you hold in that content. In short, what belongs to you stays yours."

This could not be clearer. The principals of intellectual property and copyright are well enshrined and are not abstract ideas. That overarching statement invalidates the ludicrous notion that Google is going to sell your script, or do anything else to monetize private content beyond the most obvious of building a profile (which is no different from Microsoft, your beloved, or Apple).

Re: Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

#35

Post by Cushman »

jeffool wrote: post #33
TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #19

Does it really matter? I get google mail, with 6+ gigs of quota. I can make free calls via google's email website. I have a google phone number from GVoice. If my phone service is deactivated, I still get calls and texts and transcription. All I need then is to log in via a free wifi. I have all my contacts saved from my phone, along with free recording and voicemail transcription. I have a full history of what I've…

FYI, your Google Voice calls are using your minutes and won't continue if you stop your plan. (Unless you're using some kind of work around.) Maybe I misread... Just thought you should know. Good luck with the job hunt! I'm in the exact same boat!

Only if you use the phone. Calling directly from Gmail or Google Voice is free (for domestic calls in the US and Canada).

Re: Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

#36

Post by Cushman »

cooldeal wrote: post #31
huggyface wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not exactly OK when they say they can "reproduce, modify, create derivative works (...), publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content." Ignore the hysterical reactions by those with an agenda. That section of the ToU explicitly applies to information that you explicitly make public (such as posting on Google+).

Maybe you can point to the part where it makes clear that the clause applies to only things made explicitly public instead of some handwaving about people with an agenda? These are matters of law and when it comes to a court, what is clearly written down matters more than what your assumptions are. Lets take a (very unlikely) hypothetical case of you uploading a movie script to Google Drive, and as you're shopping it…

> These are matters of law and when it comes to a court, what is clearly written down matters more than what your assumptions are.

Worth pointing out that this is almost exactly false. Courts can and routinely do modify or reject clauses or whole contracts in accordance with what the parties believed they agreed to, or simply what the court believes is fair. The idea that anything written down and signed is legally binding is pure Hollywood.

Were Google to take your intellectual property without compensation, that clause (even assuming it applied) would not offer them protection.

Re: Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

#37

Post by misterbwong »

blhack wrote: post #11

This rhetoric is getting really old. If you want to store things that you would consider sensitive, dropbox, google drive, amazon, imgur, facebook, or whatever else are not the place to do it, and you shouldn't be expecting any different. I store comics, pictures from my iPhone, and a few bits of music that I like on my dropbox. if I use gDrive, it will be the same thing. This should be obvious .

This should be obvious

It should be, but it isn't. To techies, yes. We understand that Google/Dropbox/iCloud/CloudDriveX(tm) can and probably will use information accessed through these services. To others, though, it's just like saying some company can "read your hard drive and look at your stuff" which is unexpected and unsettling.

Normal users expect their files to be just that-their files.

Whether this is an invasion of privacy or just the new normal is up for debate.

Re: Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

#38

Post by patmeckham »

Here's a quote from another mattpeckham article:

When you type something like "www.yahoo.com" into your browser, for instance, your request hits your Internet service provider's DNS server, which translates it into a numeric IP address. If you plug that IP address into your browser's URL bar in lieu of the web address, barring any IP tricks, you'll land on the exact same web page.

End quote.

Matt, have you ever run an http server? Did you actually try the experiment you describe? Yahoo has long required a Host name in addition to an IP address. No Host name, no dice.

Most http servers are serving differing (or the same) content for a variety of Host names. The buzzword is "virtual hosting". The person running such a server may choose to accomodate the situation where no Host name is provided, and serve you some "default" content. Or he made not. Where the web (http) is concerned, IP addresses alone will rarely suffice. The web of course is only a small part of the internet.

Also, would you care to elaborate on what you mean by "IP tricks".

I have a bigger problem with "tech journalism" like this than I do with Google Drive and other cloud storage nonsense.

Re: Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

#39

Post by earl »

patmeckham wrote: post #38

Here's a quote from another mattpeckham article: When you type something like "www.yahoo.com" into your browser, for instance, your request hits your Internet service provider's DNS server, which translates it into a numeric IP address. If you plug that IP address into your browser's URL bar in lieu of the web address, barring any IP tricks, you'll land on the exact same web page. End quote. Matt, have you ever run a…

I was curious if browsing via ip still works, and at least for Y! it does.

   $ dig yahoo.com
   [ ... ]
   ;; ANSWER SECTION:
   yahoo.com.		1153	IN	A	98.139.183.24
plugging 98.139.183.24 into the omnibar on chrome leads to yahoo just fine [1]

[1] https://img.skitch.com/20120426-gdhrn9wpum12y39ifui3um37b2.j...

Re: Will Google Drive Snoop Inside Your Data? Google Needs to Be Clearer

#40

Post by eck »

earl wrote: post #39
patmeckham wrote: post #38

Here's a quote from another mattpeckham article: When you type something like "www.yahoo.com" into your browser, for instance, your request hits your Internet service provider's DNS server, which translates it into a numeric IP address. If you plug that IP address into your browser's URL bar in lieu of the web address, barring any IP tricks, you'll land on the exact same web page. End quote. Matt, have you ever run a…

I was curious if browsing via ip still works, and at least for Y! it does. $ dig yahoo.com [ ... ] ;; ANSWER SECTION: yahoo.com. 1153 IN A 98.139.183.24 plugging 98.139.183.24 into the omnibar on chrome leads to yahoo just fine [1] [1] https://img.skitch.com/20120426-gdhrn9wpum12y39ifui3um37b2.j...

That is because yahoo has its own servers and yahoo.com is the only website at that IP. For mere mortals like me with a dreamhost account or something, there's probably dozens of sites on the same IP, so your computer has to first connect to the IP then send the HTTP "Host:" header to say what site it wants.
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