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United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

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Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#761

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

mangodrunk wrote: post #757
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the role you are describing is a principal engineer or team lead, not a manager. Simply not true however that a good manager can't lead the team in a high pressure situation. I'd say that exactly what a good manager could do well. Obviously they won't be making overtly technical decisions, that's what you are for. They can make business decisions, provide cover, get resources, communicate to other stakeholders…

I don’t see much value added by a manager that you described. What you are describing is more of a product manager role.

Not everything of value is technical. That you don't see the value is either because you have great managers shielding from having to deal with all that, or you have always worked in a place that combines management and technical responsibilities (which I never have except for very small companies).

I wouldn't call what I'm describing as product management, although it's possible they could do general management too.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#762

Post by mikrotikker »

goku12 wrote: post #758
mikrotikker wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps DEI hires that don't have to do their full duties because expecting them to is racist or transphobic or something stupid and they'll be protected by their manager who got shafted in his last performance review because he had too many "white males" on staff.

Do you have any reasonable justifications to base that speculation on, or are you just using this as an opportunity to target people racially or based on orientation? This sounds oddly similar to how Boeing tried to save their own skin by pinning the blame on foreign-trained foreign pilots when their own mismanagement in the form of 737 Max 8 MCAS killed hundreds of passengers.

I am extrapolating from the DEI stuff exposed by Ashley St Claire at United Airlines and I'm using this to target patronizing and dangerous DEI initiatives, not individuals.

Boeing should be held liable for hiring based on skin colour and orientation instead of merit, this risking lives.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#763

Post by bb88 »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #761
mangodrunk wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see much value added by a manager that you described. What you are describing is more of a product manager role.

Not everything of value is technical. That you don't see the value is either because you have great managers shielding from having to deal with all that, or you have always worked in a place that combines management and technical responsibilities (which I never have except for very small companies). I wouldn't call what I'm describing as product management, although it's possible they could do general management too.

Sure, but I feel it's easier to teach management skills to technical person, than it is to teach tech to someone that's only been in management.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#764

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

bshacklett wrote: post #703
disillusioned wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more ridiculous, Boeing offered a second source of truth option, but marked it as an upcharge, which the airlines in question rejected. "No thanks, no need for a second AoA sensor, one is none is probably fine!"

Additionally, two feels like a really strange number. I would think three for a tiebreaker would be standard for any sensor with that much impact (no pun intended).

Yes, two would be very ill-advised. I think there was some incident where a plane had only two pitot tubes and of course this caused problems. Or... I may have simply misremembered pitot tubes instead of AOA sensors in the Boeing case.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#765

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

gmokki wrote: post #617
ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a pilot can't be expected to maintain the pitch of a plane on takeoff, he has no business flying ANYTHING. What Boeing did (and is STILL doing) is expect pilots to know or remember obscure NON-PILOTAGE (and in the case of MCAS, BURIED) trivia to prevent disaster. Now... what's the more-responsible approach? Expect pilots to pilot, or expect them to recall an ever-growing list of workarounds to incompetent system d…

The whole MCAS was just unnecessary feature (bug fix). Without it the plane would have worked just fine. The pilots would just have had to go some amount of training scenarios to get the certification on how the MAX plain flies.

Exactly. Unless the "upward-pitching tendency" under high power is extreme, any competent pilot should be able to keep the plane's attitude as desired.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#766

Post by goku12 »

mikrotikker wrote: post #762
goku12 wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any reasonable justifications to base that speculation on, or are you just using this as an opportunity to target people racially or based on orientation? This sounds oddly similar to how Boeing tried to save their own skin by pinning the blame on foreign-trained foreign pilots when their own mismanagement in the form of 737 Max 8 MCAS killed hundreds of passengers.

I am extrapolating from the DEI stuff exposed by Ashley St Claire at United Airlines and I'm using this to target patronizing and dangerous DEI initiatives, not individuals. Boeing should be held liable for hiring based on skin colour and orientation instead of merit, this risking lives.

So you're 'extrapolating' an unrelated incident in a different company to target DEI initiatives at Boeing? If you remember the MCAS saga, you'll note that rot occurred at the exceedingly white executive level while the company was trying to pin the blame on foreign pilots. This is even supported by voice clips and email transcripts. Some of those were outright arrogant. It clearly shows a pattern consistent with profiteering work culture and nothing related to any race.

In fact, this is one pattern I've seen with such racist dog whistles - blame the marginalized groups and target DEI measures without any good justification to save the image of the privileged. It propagates the sinister implication that an employee is definitely bad if they are a DEI hire.

We're talking about a dangerous situation again with the potential to cause loss of life. It warrants serious contemplation as it might affect us some day. The fact that some people will hijack the discussion to advance their racist agenda is beyond disgusting.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#767

Post by account42 »

Snow_Falls wrote: post #632
didntcheck wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"because they were prioritizing other factors instead of competency" That's not a particularly outlandish take, and the other factor is orthogonal

Do you believe that other factor is wokeness, or is it maximising profit

Corporate wokeness is about maximising profit by acquiring funding conditional on said wokeness.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#768

Post by mikrotikker »

goku12 wrote: post #766
mikrotikker wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am extrapolating from the DEI stuff exposed by Ashley St Claire at United Airlines and I'm using this to target patronizing and dangerous DEI initiatives, not individuals. Boeing should be held liable for hiring based on skin colour and orientation instead of merit, this risking lives.

So you're 'extrapolating' an unrelated incident in a different company to target DEI initiatives at Boeing? If you remember the MCAS saga, you'll note that rot occurred at the exceedingly white executive level while the company was trying to pin the blame on foreign pilots. This is even supported by voice clips and email transcripts. Some of those were outright arrogant. It clearly shows a pattern consistent with pro…

DEI is a racist agenda that endangers us all. It should be discarded for a merit based approach that ignores race, religion etc.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#769

Post by goku12 »

mikrotikker wrote: post #768
goku12 wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're 'extrapolating' an unrelated incident in a different company to target DEI initiatives at Boeing? If you remember the MCAS saga, you'll note that rot occurred at the exceedingly white executive level while the company was trying to pin the blame on foreign pilots. This is even supported by voice clips and email transcripts. Some of those were outright arrogant. It clearly shows a pattern consistent with pro…

DEI is a racist agenda that endangers us all. It should be discarded for a merit based approach that ignores race, religion etc.

> DEI is a racist agenda that endangers us all.

The argument so far has shown how fallacious and unsubstantiated this claim is. The irony in this case is that the exact opposite applies.

> It should be discarded for a merit based approach that ignores race, religion etc.

This so called 'merit' is a distraction meant to hide 'privilege'. There is no merit unless privilege gap is addressed first. If you think DEI hiring counts as privilege, then you haven't seen or recognized systematic discrimination, racist mistreatment and outright kakistocracy. It's like a trained and well-armed soldier asking a farmer for a fair duel over who gets to keep the harvests- there is nothing fair about it.

My original reply had nothing do with race, but you managed to drag it into it for no good reason. The only reason I responded is because I didn't want to lend credence to such crude ideas with my silence. Unless you have any reasonable evidence to suggest that DEI hires are in any way responsible for these mishaps, I'm going to assume that have nothing more to say other than a one-sided diatribe against the challenge to your privileges.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#770

Post by mikrotikker »

goku12 wrote: post #769
mikrotikker wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEI is a racist agenda that endangers us all. It should be discarded for a merit based approach that ignores race, religion etc.

> DEI is a racist agenda that endangers us all. The argument so far has shown how fallacious and unsubstantiated this claim is. The irony in this case is that the exact opposite applies. > It should be discarded for a merit based approach that ignores race, religion etc. This so called 'merit' is a distraction meant to hide 'privilege'. There is no merit unless privilege gap is addressed first. If you think DEI hirin…

> The argument so far has shown how fallacious and unsubstantiated this claim is. The irony in this case is that the exact opposite applies.

Once you get out of the wacky humanities courses and into the real world this argument falls apart. Look at the aforementioned UA incident.

> This so called 'merit' is a distraction meant to hide 'privilege'

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

> My original reply had nothing do with race, but you managed to drag it into it for no good reason

Race is but one component of DEI and the easiest to reach for.

> I'm going to assume that have nothing more to say other than a one-sided diatribe against the challenge to your privileges.

Yes safe landings and safe air travel is a privilege and DEI is a challenge to that. What's more it is but a single industry where public safety and product quality is being sacrificed for the religious dogma of DEI. Its a funny coincidence DEI is Latin for god, but fitting none the less.

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