Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

news.ycombinator.com

51–60 of 315 posts

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#51

This is going to be a controversial opinion. The quality of your average tech worker has completely nosedived in the last 10-15 years. All these huge companies wanted more products, more marketshare, more money, etc. They needed more people to pull this off. They started lowering hiring standards across the board because there just weren't enough people in tech. Simultaneously, a huge portion of the world saw tech sa…

The awkward part is that most people I know that have been at these companies for 10+ years feel like they couldn't pass the current hiring bar.

In my experience, this mostly is because the “hiring bar” at big companies is frequently disassociated from actual day-to-day work. It typically looks like

1. memorizing some 50-200 or so domain-specific general patterns which problem solutions will tend to follow, so you can solve an arbitrary leetcode medium in under 20 minutes time — a skill that has almost nothing to do with the plumbing and product work most tech-workers engage in on a day to day basis, and

2. Speak at length and extemporaneously on arbitrary from-scratch system design problems — a skill which, while sometimes important, is a skill which most engineers that aren’t working at a startup won’t usually exercise more than once or twice a year, as the ratio of work on “systems already designed” to “systems needing new designs” will overwhelmingly skew towards pre-existence.

When your hiring process and day job are so thoroughly dissociated and unrelated to each other, it’s not a surprise current workers who aren’t actively studying for a job change couldn’t pass it.

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#52

Gergely Orosz's theory[1]: > An IRS tax code change in Section 174. This change eliminates the ability for businesses to deduct R&D as an expense. > Hear of lots of layoffs directly because of this, as a start. [1] https://twitter.com/GergelyOrosz/status/1735030983173230944?...

What does the average company spend on R&D percentage-wise?

My old company was a contract engineering company, so they always tried to staff everyone possible on projects being paid for by customers. R&D was used to develop internal tech and build expertise on new technologies so it was only maybe 10-25% of most engineer's timesheets.

Do other tech companies spend that much more on R&D?

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#53
post #46

This is going to be a controversial opinion. The quality of your average tech worker has completely nosedived in the last 10-15 years. All these huge companies wanted more products, more marketshare, more money, etc. They needed more people to pull this off. They started lowering hiring standards across the board because there just weren't enough people in tech. Simultaneously, a huge portion of the world saw tech sa…

This doesn’t really make sense - if it were true a single company could pay many times what faang does to secure talent 10x+ better than a normal tech worker and have unfettered success. It also means a 10x dev years ago would be.. 100x now? It also implies some weird logic that if you were into tech before, you’re better than someone who was born 10 years later and is into tech now. And implications that if you’re n…

Your first point assumes that it is easy to identify top tier talent during the hiring process and that tech employment is not a market for lemons [1].

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#54

This is going to be a controversial opinion. The quality of your average tech worker has completely nosedived in the last 10-15 years. All these huge companies wanted more products, more marketshare, more money, etc. They needed more people to pull this off. They started lowering hiring standards across the board because there just weren't enough people in tech. Simultaneously, a huge portion of the world saw tech sa…

"Your average colleague is an idiot" is never an unpopular opinion among tech workers. "You are average," now that is unpopular opinion.

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

― George Carlin

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#56
I suspect there is something political going on, concentrating power, and disdaining the value of individuals, compassion, and responsibility to build a better world (obviously, not any company's only considerations, but a balance -and now those considerations seem at an all-time low IMHO). In other contexts, the same movement disdains the rights, freedom, and lives of other people generally.

Or that could be a bunch of BS; it's hard to establish objectively. It seems so important, that cultural change, that I think it's worth talking about (and maybe someone else has a more objective, factual way to talk abou it).

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#57

[Pulling from another thread, but this is my best guesstimate. With additional context] The rules of the game have changed. > We were allowed to expense all employee compensation tied to software or R&D in the year in which we paid it. Now we can only expense a small fraction of that because we have to capitalize the expense. That means if you paid and developer $100 to develop a piece of software then sold subscript…

Counterpoint: This doesn't apply to Google, because Google has _always_ amortized their developer comp, but Google still layed off a thousand people. So, maybe this is just an excuse?

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#58

This is going to be a controversial opinion. The quality of your average tech worker has completely nosedived in the last 10-15 years. All these huge companies wanted more products, more marketshare, more money, etc. They needed more people to pull this off. They started lowering hiring standards across the board because there just weren't enough people in tech. Simultaneously, a huge portion of the world saw tech sa…

"Your average colleague is an idiot" is never an unpopular opinion among tech workers. "You are average," now that is unpopular opinion.

> "Your average colleague is an idiot" is never an unpopular opinion among tech workers.

I actually don't hold that opinion because I think a lot of these people are actually pretty smart!

They just aren't oriented to be tech experts. They are really talented at some other thing in life, but ended up in tech chasing the salaries.

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#59

This is going to be a controversial opinion. The quality of your average tech worker has completely nosedived in the last 10-15 years. All these huge companies wanted more products, more marketshare, more money, etc. They needed more people to pull this off. They started lowering hiring standards across the board because there just weren't enough people in tech. Simultaneously, a huge portion of the world saw tech sa…

Even if we assume that what you think is true then it is still solely the companies' fault. Because if the prospective employees are so shit why would you hire them in the first place?

I'm not looking to assign blame or anything, I've just seen this pattern play out in the last couple of decades. I think it's a valid theory of the current "market correction."

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#60
post #46

This is going to be a controversial opinion. The quality of your average tech worker has completely nosedived in the last 10-15 years. All these huge companies wanted more products, more marketshare, more money, etc. They needed more people to pull this off. They started lowering hiring standards across the board because there just weren't enough people in tech. Simultaneously, a huge portion of the world saw tech sa…

This doesn’t really make sense - if it were true a single company could pay many times what faang does to secure talent 10x+ better than a normal tech worker and have unfettered success. It also means a 10x dev years ago would be.. 100x now? It also implies some weird logic that if you were into tech before, you’re better than someone who was born 10 years later and is into tech now. And implications that if you’re n…

Apologies, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying so would love to hear more of your thoughts.

> It also implies some weird logic that if you were into tech before, you’re better than someone who was born 10 years later and is into tech now.

This was not what I was trying to say. The amount of people who work in tech is far, far higher now than it was 20 years ago. It just brought more "average" people in who don't really push the boundaries of what is possible. Lots of apps that move strings in and out of databases, very little real innovation going on from smart people.

Post reply on HN