Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#31

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 9:59 PM UTC

Solvency wrote: post #22

Apreche wrote: post #13

The same thing that always drives layoffs. You are a company. The system we have demands growth. Even very stable and reliable profits are seen as failure. There must be growth. The people who run a company can not press a magic button to increase revenues. They can't just pull a successful new project out of nowhere. Anything like that is going to be a risk, and will probably fail. It will also take time. The one th…

"You are a company. The system we have demands growth. Even very stable and reliable profits are seen as failure. There must be growth." But take a software company like McNeel. They make a popular but extremely niche market product called https://www.rhino3d.com . They've been around for decades . They have extremely low turnover. Many developers have worked there since the beginning. They are used around the globe…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#32

Post by bmitc » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:00 PM UTC

Venture capitalism, late stage capitalism, and just gross incompetence and lack of empathy.

The U.S. is all about me, myself, and I, and these layoffs are just one result of those at the top keeping it the way they like it.

Another driver is that workers' rights suck in the U.S. So now employees are just back to the first industrial revolution: they are just bodies and line items on spreadsheets. They are not people or assets.

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#33

Post by srverma » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:00 PM UTC

pi-e-sigma wrote: post #24

leetharris wrote: post #19

This is going to be a controversial opinion. The quality of your average tech worker has completely nosedived in the last 10-15 years. All these huge companies wanted more products, more marketshare, more money, etc. They needed more people to pull this off. They started lowering hiring standards across the board because there just weren't enough people in tech. Simultaneously, a huge portion of the world saw tech sa…

Even if we assume that what you think is true then it is still solely the companies' fault. Because if the prospective employees are so shit why would you hire them in the first place?

I feel like assigning blame is neither here nor there. Leaders in these companies often look at what other companies are doing, and follow suite. There's an argument that Elon laying off 80% of twitter is another catalyst - so why companies not follow?

Ultimately, if hiring managers offered these roles because work was needed but no longer is, would you blame them for adjusting their approach?

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#34

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:01 PM UTC

forward1 wrote: post #15

The past ten years of tech have been subsidized with low interest rates, i.e. free money. That is now gone and companies must tighten belts. There really is no greater mystery here.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#35

Post by breadbreadbread » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:01 PM UTC

Solvency wrote: post #22

Apreche wrote: post #13

The same thing that always drives layoffs. You are a company. The system we have demands growth. Even very stable and reliable profits are seen as failure. There must be growth. The people who run a company can not press a magic button to increase revenues. They can't just pull a successful new project out of nowhere. Anything like that is going to be a risk, and will probably fail. It will also take time. The one th…

"You are a company. The system we have demands growth. Even very stable and reliable profits are seen as failure. There must be growth." But take a software company like McNeel. They make a popular but extremely niche market product called https://www.rhino3d.com . They've been around for decades . They have extremely low turnover. Many developers have worked there since the beginning. They are used around the globe…

idk what their profit structure or founding story is, but the poison pill for every company is investment capital. The second you take VC money you are beholden to someone other than your coworkers and clients. If you can get off the ground and become sustainable on sales alone, you are golden. Stability is possible but the problem is that most VCs demand 10x return, not 1.25x return.

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#36

Post by pengaru » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

Solvency wrote: post #22

Apreche wrote: post #13

The same thing that always drives layoffs. You are a company. The system we have demands growth. Even very stable and reliable profits are seen as failure. There must be growth. The people who run a company can not press a magic button to increase revenues. They can't just pull a successful new project out of nowhere. Anything like that is going to be a risk, and will probably fail. It will also take time. The one th…

"You are a company. The system we have demands growth. Even very stable and reliable profits are seen as failure. There must be growth." But take a software company like McNeel. They make a popular but extremely niche market product called https://www.rhino3d.com . They've been around for decades . They have extremely low turnover. Many developers have worked there since the beginning. They are used around the globe…

  > Rhinoceros (typically abbreviated Rhino or Rhino3D) is a commercial
  > 3D computer graphics and computer-aided design (CAD) application
  > software that was developed by TLM, Inc, dba Robert McNeel &
  > Associates, an American, privately held, and employee-owned company
  > that was founded in 1978.

So not a public company subject to the fickle stock market's expectations of constant growth...

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#37

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

leetharris wrote: post #19

This is going to be a controversial opinion. The quality of your average tech worker has completely nosedived in the last 10-15 years. All these huge companies wanted more products, more marketshare, more money, etc. They needed more people to pull this off. They started lowering hiring standards across the board because there just weren't enough people in tech. Simultaneously, a huge portion of the world saw tech sa…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#38

Post by spike021 » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

pi-e-sigma wrote: post #24

leetharris wrote: post #19

This is going to be a controversial opinion. The quality of your average tech worker has completely nosedived in the last 10-15 years. All these huge companies wanted more products, more marketshare, more money, etc. They needed more people to pull this off. They started lowering hiring standards across the board because there just weren't enough people in tech. Simultaneously, a huge portion of the world saw tech sa…

Even if we assume that what you think is true then it is still solely the companies' fault. Because if the prospective employees are so shit why would you hire them in the first place?

Either that or why not interview, accept a certain level of experience, and then expect to do a bit more training during the onboarding phase.

My previous two companies didn't do a great job with onboarding and I think it can be so varied and not very helpful many times.

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#39

Post by lapcat » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

Apreche wrote: post #13

The same thing that always drives layoffs. You are a company. The system we have demands growth. Even very stable and reliable profits are seen as failure. There must be growth. The people who run a company can not press a magic button to increase revenues. They can't just pull a successful new project out of nowhere. Anything like that is going to be a risk, and will probably fail. It will also take time. The one th…

> You may have also noticed that Apple is much more restrained in its layoffs than the others. Not doing as many layoffs, not doing as well in the market. These things are not unrelated.

Apple stock is down because Apple's hardware revenue is down. Simple as that. https://sixcolors.com/post/2023/11/apples-fiscal-2023-in-cha...

Re: Ask HN: What is the current driver of tech layoffs?

#40

Post by Sanzig » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

Solvency wrote: post #22

Apreche wrote: post #13

The same thing that always drives layoffs. You are a company. The system we have demands growth. Even very stable and reliable profits are seen as failure. There must be growth. The people who run a company can not press a magic button to increase revenues. They can't just pull a successful new project out of nowhere. Anything like that is going to be a risk, and will probably fail. It will also take time. The one th…

"You are a company. The system we have demands growth. Even very stable and reliable profits are seen as failure. There must be growth." But take a software company like McNeel. They make a popular but extremely niche market product called https://www.rhino3d.com . They've been around for decades . They have extremely low turnover. Many developers have worked there since the beginning. They are used around the globe…

Their about page [1] provides a good clue.

> TLM, Inc. dba Robert McNeel & Associates is a closely held employee-owned Washington corporation funded solely from retained earnings.

So they're a private, employee owned company with a strong niche product that doesn't depend on outside money. They took the slow road, something that is antithetical to VCs but perfectly acceptable for bootstrapped founders that want to live comfortably but don't care about striking it rich.

[1] https://www.rhino3d.com/mcneel/about/