Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US oil lobby launches ad campaign to promote oil as 'vital' to global security

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 88 posts

Re: US oil lobby launches ad campaign to promote oil as 'vital' to global security

#61

Post by kube-system »

BirAdam wrote: post #49
AlgorithmicTime wrote: post #2

Are they wrong? I would say they're right, oil is in fact vital to global security.

They are most definitely correct. If, right now, all oil stopped flowing, many people would die. Oil is needed for bulk transport across the seas, in the air, and over land. It is needed for agricultural production, and a decent amount of electrical generation. Adding to that, almost all war machinery requires it in rather large quantities. Then, there's plastic. I hate the use of plastics for many things, but there…

> For example, there are many medical uses of plastics that save lives and restore bodily function.

Plastics also are very useful for mundane health and safety type items, because they can be low cost, impermeable, and durable. Plastic medical equipment is often safer than glass because it can be thrown away instead of reused. It also makes the equipment more accessible in lower income areas.

Eliminating all oil is just as silly of an idea as using oil for everything. There are some things it does well and some things that we can do better a different way.

Re: US oil lobby launches ad campaign to promote oil as 'vital' to global security

#62

Post by ZeroGravitas »

MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #35
NickC25 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! People want Green energy resources to be slashed? I'm all for it, once we spend roughly the same amount of time and money we've dedicated to developing oil. Between wars to secure oil, excessive industry tax breaks, etc, I wouldn't doubt the cost to get oil to where it is today is in the tens (if not hundreds) of trillions of dollars.

Please list the oil industry tax breaks. Other than expensing certain expenses (shocking) they don’t really exist in the US

Texas just passed a law providing billions for energy resilience that specifically excluded spending it on renewables.

> The Texas House of Representatives has given its approval to a new bill as a substitute for the Chapter 313 tax break. However, it explicitly excludes renewable energy companies from its provisions

Re: US oil lobby launches ad campaign to promote oil as 'vital' to global security

#63

Post by ZeroGravitas »

MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #35
NickC25 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! People want Green energy resources to be slashed? I'm all for it, once we spend roughly the same amount of time and money we've dedicated to developing oil. Between wars to secure oil, excessive industry tax breaks, etc, I wouldn't doubt the cost to get oil to where it is today is in the tens (if not hundreds) of trillions of dollars.

Please list the oil industry tax breaks. Other than expensing certain expenses (shocking) they don’t really exist in the US

> On Tuesday, November 7th, Texas voters decisively endorsed Proposition 7, overwhelmingly supporting establishing a one-billion-dollar state-managed energy fund to enhance the infrastructure of natural gas power plants. The primary objective of this fund is to fortify the infrastructure of natural gas power plants throughout the state.

https://www.keatax.com/texas-approves-prop-7-to-support-foss...

Re: US oil lobby launches ad campaign to promote oil as 'vital' to global security

#65

Post by The_Colonel »

gyudin wrote: post #33
MBCook wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when the wealth ends for the Middle East? That could go very very badly. It’s going to happen though. Even if climate change and pollution and all other ill effects didn’t exist we’d run out at some point and be in the same place.

Depends, United Arab Emirates nowadays makes more money from tourism than oil. Oil is like 1% of their GDP. Climate change is accelerated, but it’s a natural process. We are literally still in Ice Age, just in interglacial period.

This says ~16% of their GDP is from oil (directly). 2021 data.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PETR.RT.ZS?locat...

Saudi Arabia is at ~24% for comparison.

The question is what happens if you remove those 16%, how much other GDP is tied to it, more or less indirectly.

Re: US oil lobby launches ad campaign to promote oil as 'vital' to global security

#66

Post by no_wizard »

MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #35
NickC25 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! People want Green energy resources to be slashed? I'm all for it, once we spend roughly the same amount of time and money we've dedicated to developing oil. Between wars to secure oil, excessive industry tax breaks, etc, I wouldn't doubt the cost to get oil to where it is today is in the tens (if not hundreds) of trillions of dollars.

Please list the oil industry tax breaks. Other than expensing certain expenses (shocking) they don’t really exist in the US

Here's a small summary of just some of the subsidies they recieve, from a bill that was introduced[0] to limit them. These are over and above other types of deductions all businesses take advantage of tax wise

- Tax credits specifically for producing oil and gas from maringal wells and oil discovery

- Tax deductions for drilling and development cost of oil and gas wells

- Passive loss exceptions for working interests in oil and gas property (think dry wells)

- Removes exceptions for tar sands and oil shale[1]

These are just some. Then there's the second order costs, like how much of our defense budget is geared toward simply protecting oil tankers[2] specifically.

[0]: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/1483...

[1]: which had additional tax breaks due to land use classification

[2]: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/21/us-spends-81-billion-a-year-...

Re: US oil lobby launches ad campaign to promote oil as 'vital' to global security

#67

Post by Natsu »

Animats wrote: post #23
JohnFen wrote: post #6

I think the opposite -- that oil is one of the larger factors that endangers global security.

Yes. Without oil dependence, the US can let the Middle East sink back into the sand. That's going to happen eventually anyway.

Oil isn't easily replaced, though. It's not just energy, there are all the products derived from it. If you shut it off suddenly, things would collapse.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to replace it, but if we had easy replacement we wouldn't have these problems in the first place.

Re: US oil lobby launches ad campaign to promote oil as 'vital' to global security

#68

Post by llsf »

soco wrote: post #19
llsf wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of now, fossil fuel is crucial for national security. The whole economy runs on fossil fuel. But fossil fuel has 2 main drawbacks: 1. Contribute to global warming 2. It takes millions of years to produce, and few days to consume (aka limited resource) So, we need to adapt the economy to those 2 drawbacks. Even if one thinks that global warming is not an issue, then the fact that it is a limited resource is going t…

It's only a pity that most policies fall under either one or the other extreme. You suggest keeping fossils and further develop renewals until they can safely take over? Well this exact position will get most hate from both sides, thus being also the least likely to be implemented - regardless how logic and realistic it might be.

It might not be voluntary decided, but it is more a less happening. renewable is used more and more, and nuclear is getting more interest lately.

Lots of countries are putting incentives to electrify their economy, which is a necessary first step to later switch to renewable and nuclear (and ditch coal or gas).

Re: US oil lobby launches ad campaign to promote oil as 'vital' to global security

#69

Post by ThinkBeat »

Oil is without a doubt vital for parts of the world today. I would say a large part.

Which is probably why Biden, (who signed the Paris agreement again and supported COP28) has the US is producing more oil than any other country on the planet.

Given that 2/3 of the oil production in the US comes from fracking it is one of the worst ways to produce oil that is in current use. If not the worst.

"No more drilling no more on federal land" Except when there is money to be made.

https://www.statista.com/chart/16274/oil-productin-countries... https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-oil-is-produced-in-th... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/16/public-lands...

Re: US oil lobby launches ad campaign to promote oil as 'vital' to global security

#70

Post by badpun »

Without oil and gas and coal (meaning - if they all disappear today), modern world as it looks today ceases to exist. The death toll would probably be in the billions, and standard of living for people who survive could be potentially worse than in middle ages. So yeah, fossil fuels are essential to our security.
Post reply on HN