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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#131

Post by 35775436 »

jongjong wrote: post #66
borissk wrote: post #24

That's bad news for the IT jobs market. The big tech companies are firing people - those people will have no problem finding another job, but that's a job taken away from more average folks. Combined with high interest rates, that prevent businesses from starting new projects financed through credit. Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. Pr…

Yep, not to mention that many of these engineers were already paid a fortune and are extremely over-hyped as they were basically just tiny cogs in a huge machine and they can't actually build anything on their own... Which is what is required for building software outside of big tech.

I agree. At the end of the day, FAANG engineers are just employees. I never understood the hype or the prestige they get. Also, unrelated but I've read your other comments and they are on point, you're too smart for HN. I say this unironically.

This place can wear a man down fast.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#132

Post by johannes1234321 »

nly wrote: post #64
keepamovin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you can generalize from one manager or even a team of management to all managers in every company. But still your point about the absurd uncertainty of big company roles, even under glowing performance gauntlets as you so aptly say is well taken. you highlight a paradox between the values the company espouses, and the ones they actually keep. In where it appears that, no loyalty is returned to the emplo…

Wait until your manager is laid off and you're talking to them afterward. This has happened to me twice in my career and both times its like you're talking to a whole different person. In my cynical opinion, being that different person is the number 1 trait companies look for when selecting managers

Mind that being laid off also changes them. They are also human.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#133

Post by williamcotton »

Two words: managerial accounting.

And the lack of this practice across an entire industry. Margins are getting smaller and smaller and the successful companies will use such practices to inform all sorts of decisions, from building in house vs 3rd party vendor, to hiring, to R&D, etc.

The days of YOLO moonshots are over for our industry. Of course venture capital will continue to exist but perhaps directed to new industries.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#135

Post by vintermann »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #74
themoonisachees wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't googlers famously burnt out and only know how to use Google products because of dogfooding? I don't mean to demean the people just laid off, surely some of them at least know enough to operate other software suites, but hasn't this been identified as a common problem?

Don't know about burnout, the dogfooding is very real though. OTOH, they're pretty smart.

I wonder if the well-documented nihism of Google, coupled with how all the marvellous internal Google tools seem to work a lot less well without their product teams running them, is secretly an employee retention strategy.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#136

Post by kypro »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #52
borissk wrote: post #24

That's bad news for the IT jobs market. The big tech companies are firing people - those people will have no problem finding another job, but that's a job taken away from more average folks. Combined with high interest rates, that prevent businesses from starting new projects financed through credit. Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. Pr…

IT salaries are high mostly because the people who can do the job well can also do other jobs well, so if salaries go down then people change careers. For example, most people who can do IT could also become an electrician, for which the demand is currently high. > Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. This is the sort of thing that increas…

> IT salaries are high mostly because the people who can do the job well can also do other jobs well

True to some extent, but IT salaries are high in my opinion because until recently there was a very limited tech talent pool but huge demand for IT talent. I mean IT was only really seen as a good career around 15-20 years ago.

We just got lucky. We had the right skills at the right time. We rode the wave of big tech companies like Google, Amazon and Facebook growing into the most profitable companies in the world. With technology maturing from here on the industry will likely stagnate some and with plenty of freshly well educated IT talent entering the market there's really no reason to not expect this high salaries to continue. In my opinion they'll most likely fall to what your more typical middle class job pays.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#137

Post by niklasrde »

sokoloff wrote: post #78
flurdy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pissed me off when I realised you could use not Nest cameras nor doorbell if you have a Google Workspace account. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Cannot use them with a Google workspace account? Or cannot use them if you merely have a workspace account? The former seems like it might be reasonable (and I wouldn't want to lock a piece of home infrastructure to a workspace account anyway); the latter seems utterly insane.

For Nest Protect (the smoke alarm), if you try logging in with a workspace account it just won't let you. Had to resurrect a very old, unused Gmail account just for that.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#138

Post by tgma »

sabellito wrote: post #55
steveridout wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point but I don't think it's that clear cut. Twitter/X seemed to increase the pace of product changes directly after laying of the majority of its employees after Elon Musk took over. Also, when Steve Jobs returned to lead apple in 1997 he fired a significant fraction of the company before starting an incredible period of innovation. So I think a lot depends on the leadership and incentive structures.

Twitter has lost 70% of its value since Elon took over.

According to rando analysts who don't have a stake. Note that Twitter pre X as a business was unsustainable and I don't think it ever made a net profit in aggregate over its lifetime. It was all selling the dream even before the acquisition.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#139

Post by resolutebat »

azangru wrote: post #117
nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

> You can be somewhere for 10 years Our organization has a policy that it hires developers on 3-year contracts, and renews them no more than two times. So when you have reached 9 years in the org; when you have become intimately familiar with the domain, and the codebase, and the way the org works etc., you are out. I am still incredulous that someone has thought that yes, this is exactly how an organization should m…

Why? And why are you working there?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#140

Post by bArray »

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

> After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers)

I've seen a manager at a large company make "once in 10 year cuts", then the next year make similar cuts. This was maybe 5/10 years ago and they still cut like this today - how on earth they are still operating I don't know.

One of the tricks they pulled was to sack a senior role and simply add the entire senior role to a junior role, but keep pay, etc, the same. The sell the idea to the junior employee they told them that it would help with promotions. 5 years of no promotions and insane stress they were out.

They are also legally required to have some positions filled with qualified people, but they have unqualified people working those positions with "on the job training".

The company itself has declared internally it will be bankrupt as early as next year without some form of financial assistance. COVID just about killed them with excessive borrowing to make up for missed revenue, to survive and come back into a poor economy.

I know two people working for this company, one is looking for another job, the other is stuck in the company as they did a deal with University support in return for being retained for some years.

> Never get invested emotionally. SWEs in particularly no longer live in a world where you can expect to have a rewarding career working for >=5 years at any given firm.

How many people work for a company now that they believe will be around in 10, 20, 50, 100 years time? There's an extremely high chance you will far outlive the company you work for.

> Take their fucking money, build a big emergency fund, save, invest, and focus on the rest of your life outside of work.

Given how things are going, I would suggest tangible assets that can be easily liquefied, even if in a poor economy.

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