"Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#21

Post by jedsundwall » Thu, Apr 26, 2012, 4:26 PM UTC

Lewisham wrote: post #15

What I find particularly disconcerting about this Van Horn story is not that he wanted to present it (which is terrible in and of itself), but that this guy is 28, went through Digg (who never struck me as a company of idiots), already presented a sexist presentation, and still appears at SXSW either by invitation of him or Path. Why would Path or SXSW allow it? Did he not practice this presentation at Path before he…

Very well said. It's heartening to see a diversification of "personality structure." It's disheartening to have that reveal how far we still need to go – as a society – to eliminate misogyny.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#22

Post by eli_awry » Thu, Apr 26, 2012, 4:26 PM UTC

This problem starts early, too - in my undergrad institution, many of the lectures and programming assignments taught OOP with examples employing beer and women-as-objects-of-seduction. The lecturers - not just TAs, but also adjuncts - would go out drinking with guys in the class from their old frats while ( I was alerted ) speculating as to how I got into Algorithms by sleeping with the professor. TAs discussed with guy students which of the female profs were 'bang-able' and which 'needed to be laid' so someone would 'have to take one for the team.'

No wonder these same people think this behavior is acceptable once they enter the workforce. They're getting it from authority figures from day one. I never experienced anything like this in any other department at uni.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#23

Post by flamingbuffalo » Thu, Apr 26, 2012, 4:26 PM UTC

showerst wrote: post #16

Do these companies not have HR departments? Occasionally idiotic things slip out from employees at bigCo's too, but they're swiftly dealt with. (Which is not to say that there aren't plenty of examples of hideous sexism at big companies, but I haven't ever had a job that didn't present a very clear sexual harassment policy on the first day.) I'd have to think that the very words "uncomfortable work environment" would…

also, don't they have marketing teams that might want to protect an image they work so hard to build.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#24

Post by chc » Thu, Apr 26, 2012, 4:27 PM UTC

moron wrote: post #5

Sexting, rainbow parties, jenkem, and brogrammers. All of a piece.

You clearly missed the job ad a few months back explicitly requesting a "brogrammer" to fit in with the company culture. Sexting is also quite real (why would MMS be the one medium by which people choose not to send naked pictures of themselves?). So unless you have good proof of rainbow parties and jenkem, you're way off.

Note for my rather ignorant downvoting friends: This was a real job ad from a YC company. It used that exact phrasing. Downvoting me doesn't make it stop being real. Perhaps you should deal with your feelings instead of clicking down arrows to make comments go away when they make you feel uncomfortable.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#25

Post by codesuela » Thu, Apr 26, 2012, 4:28 PM UTC

I find this whole brogrammer phenomenon ridiculous. It seems that it was a joke but now people start taking this stuff serious. I feel really embarrassed for people who describe themselves as brogrammers

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#26

Post by AkThhhpppt » Thu, Apr 26, 2012, 4:30 PM UTC

RandallBrown wrote: post #17

The brogrammer meme is JUST A JOKE! It's the very opposite of a stereotypical programmer. It's simply taking a stereotype, flipping it around, and poking fun at it. Instead of being disgusted by jokes about nudie calendars, do something about it. Go give your own presentation. Recruit more women at your company. Turn the boys club into an everyone club. I'm not saying that everything people are doing is okay, I'm jus…

Trying to tell people pulling this crap is wrong isn't doing something?

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#27

Post by dipthegeezer » Thu, Apr 26, 2012, 4:30 PM UTC

Well you still have job adverts from big boys like twitter saying 'responsible enjoyment of beer' as a prerequisite.

https://twitter.com/jobs/positions?jvi=ooE7VfwO,Job

If that's not appealing to the frat boy crowd then I don't know what is.

Not to mention the fact that a lot of people don't actually drink ( I know hard to believe! ), or have a life that doesn't involve drinking all the time. As someone who's been there and got the T-shirt I get jaded when I see things like this. A lot of the best coders are past the 'frat boy' stage and prefer a mature working environment when they see things like this it sends alarm bells ringing.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#28

Post by theorique » Thu, Apr 26, 2012, 4:31 PM UTC

jsavimbi wrote: post #20

RandallBrown wrote: post #17

The brogrammer meme is JUST A JOKE! It's the very opposite of a stereotypical programmer. It's simply taking a stereotype, flipping it around, and poking fun at it. Instead of being disgusted by jokes about nudie calendars, do something about it. Go give your own presentation. Recruit more women at your company. Turn the boys club into an everyone club. I'm not saying that everything people are doing is okay, I'm jus…

> The brogrammer meme is JUST A JOKE! No, it's an inside joke. There's a big difference there.

There's a certain irony and distance about it, though. My read of the brogrammer meme is laughing at the concept that frat boys and meathead "bros" can write code.

It's often manifested as smart guys concealing their brains in a fog of conscious, ironic boneheadedness.

The problem is when it crosses the line and becomes a fad to follow, or actually alienating to women in the profession.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#29

Post by cgh » Thu, Apr 26, 2012, 4:35 PM UTC

stfu wrote: post #14

These "I'm shocked, outraged, sick to my stomach." postings make me always a bit uncomfortable. It seems to me that there are two ways one can approach this subject. On to proclaim that these are intentional acts of portraying females in a negative light and keeping them out of the tech industry. The other, that these are just a bunch of nerds, trying (and in large parts failing) to make coding something "oool" or a…

Or, young males (I am male but no longer so young) are just generally oblivious when it comes to empathizing with others, particularly women. Blame testosterone.

I believe the problem can be curbed by companies that watch out for this sort of thing, but you'll always have a certain unpleasant minority of "boys being boys".

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#30

Post by ebbv » Thu, Apr 26, 2012, 4:35 PM UTC

Not that fucking Siri canard again. It was debunked repeatedly. The reason Planned Parenthood wasn't being found by the person's query is they were looking for "abortion provider" or something along those lines and Planned Parenthood wasn't listing itself under those terms. It had NOTHING to do with sexism on the part of the developers.

Shame on the author.