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Signs that it's time to leave a company

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Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#101

Post by irrational »

paulddraper wrote: post #54
lucidguppy wrote: post #34

I don't understand this fascination with central offices. We live in the year 2024. We should be able to look at our workforce, find small offices, and have hub and spoke networks of offices - and work from home as a fallback. Rent a condo, do a communal office, if you want more close collaboration - shuffle your teams to colocate them - not force them into 1hr commutes into a fucking empty office. Our infrastructure…

People collaborate easier in person. Travel is a downside.

Except, some jobs really really don't require much if any collaboration. We've been having to come back into the office since last September. In all that time, I've only spoken to another person a single time. Literally one hour in one day in the past 5 months. All meetings are still over zoom and when I'm not in a meeting, I just find some place in the building to sit and work. Except many people still weren't coming in since september and now they have cracked down on it and said people must be in the office and they are checking badge check-ins and the ip address of where our work laptops are being used to see if they are on the campus network or not. The result is tons of people are here now, but there isn't room for them. Before the pandemic, the company started getting rid of cubicles and moving to rooms full of desks and you just find somewhere to sit. But they don't have enough places to sit for everyone so if you don't get here early, you just end up sitting on the floor or wandering around. It is crazy how much lost productivity we are experiencing.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#102

Post by codegeek »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #84
erinaceousjones wrote: post #70

That so many people are so focused on things "having" to be in a constant state of exponential growth makes me feel uneasy. It's like so many people can't see the forest for the trees - we can't have infinite exponential growth forever. Like, little software shops which take on a stable number of projects / contracts / clients a year, focused on sustainability instead of pure profit, lose and gain people at a roughly…

>Like, little software shops I tried those and TBH they never worked for me. Small shops in my experience have not very good processes, rush to gain new projects and customers at all cost by sales/management always overpromising and burning out engineers in the process who strugle with the unrealistic deadlines, promotions are gained trough favoritism since there's no fixed clear and well documented promotion/career…

That's ok. You are just built to work with more structure and processes. Some people like the small company vibe where things are a bit chaotic but also fun and creative. Nothing wrong with either.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#103

Post by whilenot-dev »

erinaceousjones wrote: post #70

That so many people are so focused on things "having" to be in a constant state of exponential growth makes me feel uneasy. It's like so many people can't see the forest for the trees - we can't have infinite exponential growth forever. Like, little software shops which take on a stable number of projects / contracts / clients a year, focused on sustainability instead of pure profit, lose and gain people at a roughly…

Time and time again job announcements are mentioning fast-paced environments, and exactly those companies like to churn through an immense body count. Loyalty needs to go two ways. Stability seems to be a game for the older folks, whereas younger people prefer efficiency and risk taking.

"we can't have infinite exponential growth forever", I agree, but I can create infinite exponential personal growth for my younger self is acceptable as well.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#104

Post by oneepic »

Here's a bizarre story about quitting. When I was at Microsoft, I had a manager who, despite good intentions, led through fear and paranoia. I had gotten yelled at for causing a production incident, which was not the first time, but that week I started having some very strange dreams involving seeing the number "69" in different places. Just some juvenile humor maybe, I just dismissed it.

In the meantime, gradually this idea of quitting popped up and felt like a crazy, radical, awesome idea -- and I told him I was leaving immediately, fuck 2 weeks notice, etc. I was excited and terrified of him. Well, he told me the processing would still take a few days no matter what, and once we finalized it, my official last day was... June 9. 6/9

Then I worked at Expedia, had a rough experience with a manager there, and wouldn't you know it I had the magic number appear in my dreams again. 3 months in, cya. Call it superstition, or classical conditioning, but I don't really regret it.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#105

Post by hobs »

JacobThreeThree wrote: post #57
hobs wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the ownership is capturing a huge multiple of your effort and you could go somewhere else to capture more of the money you create? Let's invert it - why should I just make my boss more money forever while I get the same cut?

>Let's invert it - why should I just make my boss more money forever while I get the same cut? It sounds like you're assuming OP is getting a small cut. What if his salary is generous and there's a profit sharing bonus pool every year? The idea that in every career one needs to be continuously promoted to new positions doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my opinion.

Well, then the OP is among one of the very few people that couldn't find a better job for the position.

In my experience I have had 22 jobs in my life, half software, half not - every time I asked for a raise and even got a good one it was never more than 9% in a specific position, in moving positions I have received over 100% multiple times.

There was no such thing as profit sharing, I was seriously underpaid many times. There was 401k matching at best, and anywhere that offered stock basically went bust or used means to ensure they never paid it.

Ultimately I would love to stay somewhere that paid me well and treated me well, but getting both for a steady period is hard!

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#106

Post by rcbdev »

dboreham wrote: post #82
3737hdhd7372 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, something about working hybrid just feels like “why are we doing this?” It’s like an awkward inbetween I also don’t get why companies seem unphased about paying for a giant office that is empty the majority of the week

Hybrid doesn't make sense. It's just "working in an office with some days at home" which was something I remember doing in the mid 1990s. Basically as soon as the Internet and laptops existed, it was done. It seems more like a frog boiling exercise on the way to full in-office (which imho will never return).

For some people it's an intentional exercise into full home office.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#107

Post by hobs »

teach wrote: post #96
JacobThreeThree wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Let's invert it - why should I just make my boss more money forever while I get the same cut? It sounds like you're assuming OP is getting a small cut. What if his salary is generous and there's a profit sharing bonus pool every year? The idea that in every career one needs to be continuously promoted to new positions doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my opinion.

Nailed it. In fact, individual contributor salaries were public and constituted ~80% of the company's entire annual budget. Rent, utilities and all management salaries were contained in the remaining 20%.

And how much was... profit? When you say budget that's not directly tied to the revenues of the company, that's just the amount they decide to spend this year.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#108

Post by jojobas »

erinaceousjones wrote: post #70

That so many people are so focused on things "having" to be in a constant state of exponential growth makes me feel uneasy. It's like so many people can't see the forest for the trees - we can't have infinite exponential growth forever. Like, little software shops which take on a stable number of projects / contracts / clients a year, focused on sustainability instead of pure profit, lose and gain people at a roughly…

The don't want to be compensated reasonably, because they find opportunities to be compensated unreasonably.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#109

Post by Turskarama »

3737hdhd7372 wrote: post #68
opportune wrote: post #13

Definitely feeling this at another FAANG I think there’s something about post-pandemic work in software that just isn’t working. I don’t think it’s just interest rates or a hiring downturn, nor immediate causes like founders leaving (because I see this sickness at most big tech companies these days). Personally, I believe that hybrid work is not going well. Fully remote teams are good, fully onsite teams are good. Wi…

I agree, something about working hybrid just feels like “why are we doing this?” It’s like an awkward inbetween I also don’t get why companies seem unphased about paying for a giant office that is empty the majority of the week

Hybrid can make sense _if_ there are scheduled in person activities on the in office days. If you're coming in to the office just to work by yourself then it should have just been a work from home day.
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