Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

rabbit.tech

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

451–460 of 547 posts

Re: Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

#451

Post by jklinger410 »

theamk wrote: post #441
BoppreH wrote: post #313

The keynote is near science fiction, but the actual implementation is leaving me badly confused. - Did it really scan the whole table to add a new column? As in, OCR? What would happen if I had more than one screenful of data, and who in their right mind would trust the OCR'ed output? - How can it access the Discord account for the "teach mode"? Is it stealing your (sensitive and expiring!) cookies to reproduce the a…

> who in their right mind would trust the OCR'ed output? > Is it stealing your (sensitive and expiring!) cookies > running instructions from the AI on your local machine Based on my interaction with LLM enthusiasts, there are plenty of people would happily bet their career, give up all their credentials, and grant full access to all their devices to LLM if they are promised something cool. See the stories about lawye…

Question answered. Wish people would stop asking it!

Re: Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

#452

Post by mondobe »

Haven't seen anyone mention just how bad the website design is here. The homepage ran at single-digit FPS on my (pretty powerful) laptop, and I noticed performance hits where there really shouldn't have been.

Besides that, there are too many animations where a few sentences or pictures would do. Elsewhere, thick walls of text, sometimes barely indistinguishable in color from the background.

The site seems to be an omen of the product itself: cool in concept, but touch-and-go in implementation.

Re: Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

#453

Post by amadeuspagel »

bronco21016 wrote: post #426
ZiiS wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ensure you are invested $200 in using it. Very few will pay that for an App.

Yet people readily pay $99/year for apps all the time. I think the reason this isn’t an app is because the gate keepers don’t want competition. Looking at you Siri.

On android, you can set different apps as default assistant, and ChatGPT is working on that: https://www.androidauthority.com/chatgpt-replace-google-assi...

Re: Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

#454

Post by com2kid »

FireInsight wrote: post #378
amne wrote: post #374

I don't think he touched the scroll wheel in the keynote. Why is it there? What does it do? I found it awkward he scrolled by touching the screen across the damn scroll wheel. Just use it. At least in the keynote. And then there are so many questions about the hardware capabilities of this device: - where is the inference running? I don't believe it's on the device. And if it's in the cloud then why make the claim it…

From > rabbit OS operates apps on our secured cloud, so you don’t have to. Log into the apps you’d like rabbit to use on your system through the rabbit hole to relay control. You only need to do this once per app. it seems that this device doesn't run anything locally, everything is in the cloud.

> it seems that this device doesn't run anything locally, everything is in the cloud.

For apps w/o a web interface, presumably they have an Android emulator running somewhere and they controlling it with their LAM and feeding the results back to end users. They can even feed sensor data from the Rabbit phone (e.g. GPS) to the emulator.

It is a brilliant solution to the problems they are facing, but their cost model must be extreme. "No subscription required" means I am wondering what their "pay as you go" pricing will be!

Re: Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

#455

Post by fooqux »

BoppreH wrote: post #313

The keynote is near science fiction, but the actual implementation is leaving me badly confused. - Did it really scan the whole table to add a new column? As in, OCR? What would happen if I had more than one screenful of data, and who in their right mind would trust the OCR'ed output? - How can it access the Discord account for the "teach mode"? Is it stealing your (sensitive and expiring!) cookies to reproduce the a…

> Why in the VC hell are they basing their revenue on a one-time sale of a clearly unnecessary electronic gadget (my phone already has all that!), when their biggest variable costs will be recurring cloud expenses?

It looks like they'll also be allowing people who create their own automations to sell them in their marketplace. Presumably they'll take a cut of the sales here.

Re: Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

#456

Post by thebradbain »

gaoryrt wrote: post #361

He is the founder of RavenTech. Baidu acquired RavenTech and he became the leader of Baidu's smart hardware division, and then launched the Raven H, which you may have heard of. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/11/16/16664846/...

That’s actually really helpful context, and absolutely swayed the needle from “no track record vaporware company salesman” to “maybe he actually has the experience to pull this off”

Re: Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

#457

Post by com2kid »

Darthy wrote: post #298

In the linked keynote, Jesse Lyu mentions that LLM won't help us actually do tasks - there are currently no so-called "agents" that do something simple like book a flight - the best way to do it is still to click the buttons yourself. Rabbit means to solve that by creating a "LAM", a "Large Action model", which is a service by Rabbit that will click interfaces for you. I'm not sure this is the right approach - if it…

> Rabbit means to solve that by creating a "LAM", a "Large Action model", which is a service by Rabbit that will click interfaces for you. I'm not sure this is the right approach - if it is successful, it will lead to more centralisation around Rabbit.

The LAM is a genius hack to get around the thousands of closed gardens that apps have created.

It also may have been easier than teaching an LLM how to make tons of API calls, and if done right I presume their LAM adapts to UI changes, vs writing integrations against breaking / deprecating APIs.

Re: Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

#458

Post by com2kid »

frogamel wrote: post #94

I must be missing something here. I used to work on a voice assistant product and everything demoed is pretty bog standard stuff: play music, shop, order food, get Uber rides, ask random queries, recognize images. This also runs into the same core issue as voice assistants, which is that it's way easier to transmit complex thoughts/actions on a nice big visual UI than it is to convert those thoughts/actions into verb…

> play music

I can be driving in my car, say "OK Google, open Spotify" and Google happily replies "OK, opening Spotify on your TV".

Lovely.

I have a Spotify playlist called "kid's music".

"OK Google, play the Spotify playlist Kid's Music", and it'll go and play someone else's public playlist called Kid's Music.

Even sending messages barely works.

"Ok Google, send a message to on Facebook Messenger saying ...."

"Sorry, I cannot send messages through Facebook Messenger".

It can read messages from Facebook Messenger, but not send them, lovely.

I had Music playing on my phone, I wanted to know what song it was. "Ok Google, what song is playing", soon as I say that, the music stops and now Google assistant is listening to nothing.

Right now I cannot say "OK Google, go to Discord channel and summarize the day's conversation".

> which is that it's way easier to transmit complex thoughts/actions on a nice big visual UI

Depends on the task. Some are better on a UI (I want to see pictures of the dishes before I order), some are better with voice or natural language input.

Even on my PC, I could see some tasks being easier with an LLM

"Close all code editors I haven't touched in a week."

"Clean up my browser tabs by closing out all YouTube, reddit, and hacker news tabs. Keep open any tabs involving AI research or LLMs."

Re: Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

#459

Post by com2kid »

mortenjorck wrote: post #38
leetharris wrote: post #10

I am almost never a hater on people trying ambitious things, but man this is one of the most "doomed to fail" things I've ever seen. You've got absolutely insane market saturation by two major players that have some of the most advanced AI teams on the planet. Almost nobody is going to buy an "LLM-first phone," they will just wait for Apple or Google to put an LLM into their existing phone.

"Doomed to fail," probably. I certainly never expected to see a product so unabashedly quixotic this side of a zero-interest-rate era. But man, what a crazy swing for the fences this is. By my reckoning, this approach is probably ten years ahead of its time. I simply cannot imagine that the tech is there right now to make this nearly as seamless as it will need to be to actually supplant the UI paradigms we have toda…

Mobile ads and app stores make Apple and Google too much money for them to truly revolutionize mobile phone user interfaces.

Anything that even threatens those business models will be strangled before it gets released.

IMHO Microsoft has the most to gain here. If they manage to turn Apple and Android into platforms that interface with MS made/ran/hosted LLMs, MS wins the day.

The problem is monetization, these LLM services are expensive, and telling users they need to pay another $30 a month to use their phone will be a hard sell. Hopefully LLM hosting costs go down, but if hosting LLMs becomes too affordable, MS's giant war chest of $ and hardware become less of an advantage.

The other danger is Apple/Google throwing a bunch of restrictions in place, but all the anti-trust scrutiny they are under right now could give them pause on attempting that.

Re: Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone

#460

Post by rfwhyte »

Without a complete accounting of this companies ties to the CCP, there's literally ZERO chance I'd ever use their man in the middle attack vector device. Giving all my most sensitive login credentials to a Chinese company that's trying very hard not to be seen as a Chinese company seems like a totally sane and safe thing to do...
Post reply on HN