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Does DNA have the equivalent of IF-statements, WHILE loops, or function calls?

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111–120 of 204 posts

Re: Does DNA have the equivalent of IF-statements, WHILE loops, or function calls?

#111

PCR was partially inspired by loops in programming languages, according to Kary Mullis, who got the Nobel for its invention. (I heard him say it at Google, but I just checked YouTube and I don't think that particular visit is there. Maybe it's in other places?)

I had to check Kary Mullis's wikipedia page to figure out that PCR stood for polymerase chain reaction. While there, I got the distinct impression someone who disliked him was responsible for editing quite a lot of his article.

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Re: Does DNA have the equivalent of IF-statements, WHILE loops, or function calls?

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whereas it would be very bad if basic operations in a CPU had similar level of error rates Evolution is about mutations when the executable file is copied.

That isn't how evolution works (or at least it is a gross generalization that is borderline wrong). You own cells mutate over your lifetime and the mutations may trigger genetic features across your entire body. Sometimes, these mutations cause errors that we call cancer, but not always. Evolution is when a certain genetic feature provides better fitness (which doesn't necessarily have to come from a mutation), and t…

> which doesn't necessarily have to come from a mutation

My comment referred to OP's association of evolution with errors in genetic encoding and expression, hence my quote.

Re: Does DNA have the equivalent of IF-statements, WHILE loops, or function calls?

#113

I'm pretty sure something this complex came from a higher order being. That whole order from chaos argument is not holding water for me with this degree of complexity.

I see the opposite: the DNA/RNA/protein mechanism is just a gigantic pile of self-interacting hacks — core "design constraints" being that the cell: (1) shouldn't die too quickly; and, (2) should be reasonably energy efficient (due to competition).

Re: Does DNA have the equivalent of IF-statements, WHILE loops, or function calls?

#114

That is an interesting thought. I take this with a grain of salt, one gram of DNA is supposedly 455 exabytes of data.

Here, let's do some math. let's treat a base pair as 2 bits of data (4 bases, 2 bits to encode a base). The average molecular weight of a DNA base pair is twice this, approximately 660 daltons (or 660 grams/mole).

So a gram of DNA is 1/660 moles, or 6.023 * 10 * 23 / 660, which means a gram of DNA is 9 * 10 * 20 base pairs, making 1.8 * 10 * 21 bits, which is around 900 exabytes which is very close to a factor of two from your estimate.

(also, in case it comes in handy: pure water is 55Molar)

Re: Does DNA have the equivalent of IF-statements, WHILE loops, or function calls?

#115

I'm pretty sure something this complex came from a higher order being. That whole order from chaos argument is not holding water for me with this degree of complexity.

And that complex higher order being came from where?

Re: Does DNA have the equivalent of IF-statements, WHILE loops, or function calls?

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the amazing thing though is how such a simple concept can emerge into a very complex behaviour and intelligence. And the fact that we know that and now have proof in terms of intelligence of ChatGPT, is to me pretty clear that achieving AGI is possible if you crack the way to structure your neural network.

> now have proof in terms of intelligence of ChatGPT What.

You are intelligent. But we could get an equally-intelligent reply out of ChatGPT. Ergo, it's also intelligent.

Re: Does DNA have the equivalent of IF-statements, WHILE loops, or function calls?

#118
post #71

IF : Transcriptional activator; when present a gene will be transcribed. WHILE : Transcriptional repressor; gene will be transcribed until repressor is not present. as stated, IF and WHILE are equivalent (the WHILE is some variation of a contrapositive of an IF) secondly, it doesn't make sense that a "repressor" would cause transcription unless it is absent, since " A transcriptional repressor is a protein that regul…

Maybe there were thinking about it in terms of disinhibition?

    A --| B --| C
Where `A` inhibits `B` which inhibits `C`. So, while the repressor `A` is present, `C` will be transcribed. I'd imagine that simple repression is probably more common than disinhibition in gene networks, but idk.

Re: Does DNA have the equivalent of IF-statements, WHILE loops, or function calls?

#119
post #26
post #20

Well, DNA might not have programming structures, but it acts like a neural network. See "Gene regulatory network" > Some proteins though serve only to activate other genes, and these are the transcription factors that are the main players in regulatory networks or cascades. By binding to the promoter region at the start of other genes they turn them on, initiating the production of another protein, and so on. Some tr…

Before anyone jumps to esoteric conclusions: This is more likely a result of neural networks being very general: General in the sense that they are able to approximate/model a lot of dynamic systems that allow operadic composition.

Just a sidebar here, I think the urge to jump to esoteric conclusions is very strong because we are (rightly) trained to not expect that nature at large uses the same tools that we have developed. So its very validating (and also kind of unnerving) when we do find the suggestion that we're "right" at a more fundamental level.

Consider that the uncertainty relations in physics fall neatly out of Fourier Analysis, which could suggest that the universe also does Fourier Analysis to figure out where things are and how fast they're going. But really, its that classical interaction is a sort of mechanical Fourier transform.

I think that moment where it feels like we brush against the real clockwork of the universe has an eldritch, cosmic-horror quality to it, which is both addictive and maddening.

Re: Does DNA have the equivalent of IF-statements, WHILE loops, or function calls?

#120
post #20

Well, DNA might not have programming structures, but it acts like a neural network. See "Gene regulatory network" > Some proteins though serve only to activate other genes, and these are the transcription factors that are the main players in regulatory networks or cascades. By binding to the promoter region at the start of other genes they turn them on, initiating the production of another protein, and so on. Some tr…

Yes this because DNA is a data structure not a physical force.

If DNA of some sequence, then interaction with electromagnetic fields, gravity, strong/weak nuclear force of xyz properties will probably result in mutation along path abc, a theory the speaker must provide replicable statistical analysis to back up or it goes in the bin.

IT obsession with data models has pushed IT workers into pseudoscience that ignores entropy, Lindy effects; structure is mutable. Physical forces are not. Data structures are not physical forces. They’re leaky mental models our biology garbage collects due to entropy and Lindy effects.

Anyway just the take of an EE who finds the obsession with software development bizarre, full of statistical mirages, hallucinated accomplishments.

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