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The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

afterbabel.com

261–270 of 937 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#261

I think all the social media stuff is missing the mark. It's 100% bad but it's just trash filling the hole society is making. Looking top down at the problem, humans need self actualization or propose to be happy. Originally we evolved to live in medium sized social groups that worked together to ensure their survival, we took care of each other and that was what drove our purpose, or rather why that need evolved, it…

Honestly, I think the fact that, as the headline says, "it's international" is evidence against what you're saying. Even though the post only covers the Anglosphere, I'm from Spain and the phenomenon also happens here and is often qouted as worrying (e.g. child and teen suicide trends: https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/OJt9haHrWhKMDEPsTtrj3g--/Y... ) I don't think the Spanish society is especially competitive - no on…

I'm in Germany, not in Spain but I have family there. My impression is that young people in Spain do face quite a lot of insecurity and pretty dismal outlooks. Focusing on GPAs and the like is one way of dealing with that (that may be most prevalent in GP's bubble), but there are others. Lack of purpose and agency and a hopeful narrative for one's own future is pure poison to the mind though, and I think that's at the heart of GP's comment. Social media may very well just be the sniffing glue that makes misery more bearable, and indirectly fuel that misery, but not act as the (primary) cause of said misery.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#262

I think all the social media stuff is missing the mark. It's 100% bad but it's just trash filling the hole society is making. Looking top down at the problem, humans need self actualization or propose to be happy. Originally we evolved to live in medium sized social groups that worked together to ensure their survival, we took care of each other and that was what drove our purpose, or rather why that need evolved, it…

Running clubs and associations and churches and any nonprofit oriented community organization is hard work. Throw more parties. That’s one solution. It’s not easy either, but it isn’t pure hedonism. It’s creating real social bonds. And it takes real work!! Underappreciated.

Throw more parties

Ok. So what do poor people do? Or folks living in spaces too small for such things?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#263
post #202
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"no kid left behind" is not international, so that kinda kills your theory.

The principles have been widely copied, unfortunately.

Confirmed. In fact, it started mostly in Europe, then came to the other English countries, hitting US last of all.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#264

I think all the social media stuff is missing the mark. It's 100% bad but it's just trash filling the hole society is making. Looking top down at the problem, humans need self actualization or propose to be happy. Originally we evolved to live in medium sized social groups that worked together to ensure their survival, we took care of each other and that was what drove our purpose, or rather why that need evolved, it…

All this talk about “community” - what “community”? It simply doesn’t exist anymore even if you wanted it - short of arranging to stay near your extended family and in laws, what else is there in the modern western world? Churches, I guess is the only other true community left…

Churches aren't for everyone. I'm bisexual, and they mostly don't exist for me.

Furthermore, I shouldn't have to pretend to believe in some invisible god just to have community.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think all the social media stuff is missing the mark. I think phones may well be responsible. Before smartphones, people regularly experienced true downtime - unstructured moments with nothing to do except be in your surroundings, feel your own boredom, experience your thoughts. Now, the moment our attention isn’t occupied by something external, we reach for our phones to have something to fill the silence. I bel…

I wouldn't put phones as the responsible one so generally. I view phones as tool to 'solve' specific problems, such as communication. Apps and websites such as Outlook (email apps with notifications in general), LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, maybe also Hackernews etc. pose more of the role of ruining our downtime, as they are designed that way. At the end it would probably be about the lack of media competency, not kn…

> I wouldn't put phones as the responsible one so generally.

From my experience, phone is an extremely common factor. If you randomly take a peek at any person in the 1st and 2nd world during their "downtime", I bet that you will 99% of the time see them on their phone. Phone have absolutely consumed everything we used to do.

I cannot remember seeing a person just sitting on chair staring blankly, they almost always are on their phone or listening to something.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The archive of that site has many posts answering your question. Some have been on HN in the past months. Archive https://www.afterbabel.com/archive Here are 13 Other Explanations for the Adolescent Mental Health Crisis. None of Them Work. https://www.afterbabel.com/p/13-explanations-mental-health-c...

> Here are 13 Other Explanations for the Adolescent Mental Health Crisis. She finally gets to the deciding modern condition - the one where kids are systemically denied critical growth time (daily blocks of adult-free time & safe places to roam [safe=no threat of police or other compulsive adults]). And even tho she has this on her list of false suppositions she admits probably isn't as false as she infers. But she t…

The article is about mental health crisis being international. Meanwhile, German, French, Swiss, Japan or Scandinavian kids walk around towns free without adults. They walk to school at age of 6 or even sooner.

If it was just about independence, countries like Germany or France would not had the issue.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#267
Not a big fan of Heidt. Way too much political, unsubstantiated and handwavy rhetoric from him. And his track record has been entirely unconvincing.

The only reasonable way I can interpret his work is that of a ideologically driven puritan, trying to make the data fit his perception. In doing so, he often misses the forest for the trees.

In particular, this interpretation of teenage mental illness is predicated on data. But the data sucks. Why should we assume we have accurate data on mental illness? It's ridiculous when you consider our society's terrible history in dealing with this stigma. Sexist notions like female hysteria, gross misuse of sedatives and psychoactive drugs by medical charlatans, repression of discussion about mental illness, bias/inexperience/abuse by governmental and health care institutions, horrible conditions at sanitoriums, the list goes on. Give it another 100 years and maybe we can draw some better patterns.

In no particular order, here are some highlights on medical data and institutions in history...

1. The consensus on normal heart rate is still erroneously assumed to be 60-100 bpm. For over 100 years, this myth was predicated on poor data and grossly misinterpreted literature. Our current, best consensus based on better data is 50-90 bpm, though virtually all textbooks and educational programs have failed to update themselves. If we can't even get statistics on heart rates right, how are we supposed to get statistics on mental illness correct?

2. There is no consensus on average breaths per minute. Textbooks often contradict themselves, quoting different fabricated ranges for respiratory rates within the same page. Data in this area is sparse and and lacks adjustment for demographics. The most comprehensive data is from a study done in 1846... We just don't know because we haven't put in the rigorous effort to definitively identify this range. Again, this basic measurement is much easier than mental illness, and we haven't done it yet.

3. The most established field of medicine is considered to be Obstetrics. That is to say, this is the medical field with the oldest depth of knowledge that we consider to be accurate or useful. Which makes sense given the significance of managing childbirth for societies. And yet there are still severe deficiencies in this field. We have a long way to go in the most mature field of medical science, and an even longer way to go in every other field. In comparison, mental health was not even mentioned in writing until 1946.

4. Prior to the gross misuse of opioids perpetuated by the Sackler family, was the gross misuse of benzodiazepines (Xanax, Valium). Prior was of Barbiturates. Prior to that was alcohol. And countless more medications in between those broad categories. Humanity has abused substances to numb itself from crippling anxiety for centuries, and in the modern sense has almost always sought to mass market these drugs before careful consideration of their appropriate use. Each medication was so abused that each generation has their own idioms and memes regarding their misuse.

I'm certain that we can do better. It's just going to take time, and Heidt's work just seems like reading tea leaves and putting people in arbitrary pigeon holes.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#268

I think all the social media stuff is missing the mark. It's 100% bad but it's just trash filling the hole society is making. Looking top down at the problem, humans need self actualization or propose to be happy. Originally we evolved to live in medium sized social groups that worked together to ensure their survival, we took care of each other and that was what drove our purpose, or rather why that need evolved, it…

> I think all the social media stuff is missing the mark. I think phones may well be responsible. Before smartphones, people regularly experienced true downtime - unstructured moments with nothing to do except be in your surroundings, feel your own boredom, experience your thoughts. Now, the moment our attention isn’t occupied by something external, we reach for our phones to have something to fill the silence. I bel…

Maybe. I'd suggest phones are also symbolic of the affluence of the western world. We're so wealthy, we don't need to cooperate with anyone else for survival anymore. [For now.]

You don't see this shit in El Salvador. Parents don't pay $100 a month so their kids can ignore them and get their life lessons from Reddit.

Everyone is miserable because we need each other more than we admit. The kids really do treat each other worse than NPCs in a Westworld LARP. Those who grew up "trolling" (bullying) everyone around them online never learn how to interact with actual people in non-adversarial ways. Then they get bitter, resentful, and violent.

Every school shooter that doesn't stick the gun in their mouth at the end cites alienation and loneliness as a factor. Go figure.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#269

I think all the social media stuff is missing the mark. It's 100% bad but it's just trash filling the hole society is making. Looking top down at the problem, humans need self actualization or propose to be happy. Originally we evolved to live in medium sized social groups that worked together to ensure their survival, we took care of each other and that was what drove our purpose, or rather why that need evolved, it…

All this talk about “community” - what “community”? It simply doesn’t exist anymore even if you wanted it - short of arranging to stay near your extended family and in laws, what else is there in the modern western world? Churches, I guess is the only other true community left…

[deleted]

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't put phones as the responsible one so generally. I view phones as tool to 'solve' specific problems, such as communication. Apps and websites such as Outlook (email apps with notifications in general), LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, maybe also Hackernews etc. pose more of the role of ruining our downtime, as they are designed that way. At the end it would probably be about the lack of media competency, not kn…

> I wouldn't put phones as the responsible one so generally. From my experience, phone is an extremely common factor. If you randomly take a peek at any person in the 1st and 2nd world during their "downtime", I bet that you will 99% of the time see them on their phone. Phone have absolutely consumed everything we used to do. I cannot remember seeing a person just sitting on chair staring blankly, they almost always…

A person sitting on a chair alone staring blankly would be considered a sociopath these days.
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