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The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#241
post #145

I think all the social media stuff is missing the mark. It's 100% bad but it's just trash filling the hole society is making. Looking top down at the problem, humans need self actualization or propose to be happy. Originally we evolved to live in medium sized social groups that worked together to ensure their survival, we took care of each other and that was what drove our purpose, or rather why that need evolved, it…

The price of housing is outrageous and it's worldwide, somehow. The knock-on effects are huge and I think this is one of them. Or maybe governments just can't last as long as they have and they steal all progress eventually. (WW2 reset most, but not the US, would help explain why it's worse here?) Or maybe it really is monkey-brain things and normies shouldn't be on the Internet.

This one is puzzling because "shelter" (right to adequate housing) is directly a human right we once agreed upon.

But when we view this as a commodity and allow housing to be an investment vehicle it really displays the lack of empathy and care for the humans around us we have.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#242
This is a super interesting thread, but (un)fortunately Haidt's claims about a teen mental health epidemic have been pretty convincingly debunked.

https://reason.com/2023/03/29/the-statistically-flawed-evide...

Aaron Brown checked a sample of the papers Haidt relies on to build his case and found that they couldn't support his claims. They're of the sort of quality we've come to expect from the field, dominated by tiny unrepresentative samples, bad methodologies, bad statistics, weak signals and so on.

Unfortunately Haidt's initial response was to make a circular argument, saying you can't demand a high quality of evidence for the crisis because there's a crisis, and to engage in a subtle form of gish gallop by saying that surely not all 300 papers he selected can be bad even if a subsample were.

https://twitter.com/JonHaidt/status/1641850836287356930

Still, to his immense credit Haidt engaged seriously with the criticism and so Brown wrote another response:

https://reason.com/2023/05/30/not-every-study-on-teen-depres...

I didn't express "concerns" about specific studies; I argued that the majority of the 301 papers cited in his document are garbage. I went through each category of studies on Haidt's list, chose the first one that studied social media and depression to get a random sampling, and then showed that they were so embarrassingly bad as to be completely useless. They were guilty of coding errors, fatal defects hidden in mid-paper jargon, inappropriate statistics, longitudinal studies that weren't longitudinal, experiments in name only, and red flags for hypothesis shopping and p-hacking (that is, misusing data analysis to yield results that can be presented as statistically significant).

"A bad study is like a bad mortgage loan," I wrote in my original piece. "Packaging them up on the assumption that somehow their defects will cancel each other out is based on flawed logic, and it's a recipe for drawing fantastically wrong conclusions."

It's quite probable that there is no teen mental health crisis.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#243
I believe the big 2016 bump is due to Trump. Does that have international impact? Since I'm German and still had daily news about his behavior I say yes. As far I can remember we never had so many news about any other US president. I mean Trump was very active on social media and was very attention seeking, much more than other presidents.

Why would Trump cause depression? First of all he basically said all the things young people care about (climate change, environment, social justice etc.) are nonsense. Secondly his "diplomacy" was pretty aggressive. None of us non-US citizens wants to get drawn into a (possibly nuclear) war. Thirdly he caused a very big divide, not only in the US population but worldwide. Everything has become black and white. You're (as seen from the proponents of the other side) either a weak woke justice warrior soy boy snowflake or an old white racist Nazi hillbilly sociopath. There is no "gray" zone.

In addition to that the divide, his "free speech" approach made many topics that were previously taboo (also outside the US) daily topics again. Extreme nationalists but also extreme antifascists dared to speak out loudly again worldwide. Their extreme plans cause anxiety and stress.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#244
post #35

Do teens have much to look forward to? Climate change is already causing severe weather events, which are very likely to ramp quickly. Careers are a thing of the past, and it seems like no matter how hard you work you'll never "get ahead" and will be lucky not to spend your life living paycheck to paycheck. Life expectancy has gone down, markedly. Debt is up. New wars.

I think this has to be a huge chunk of it. I'm 40, have an established career, make the most money I've made in my life, live in a smaller city and I can barely afford to get by. I can't afford to take a vacation. I can't afford to buy land or a boat or something.

Retirement situation looks grim, likely a bullet to the head. I have literally nothing to look forward to and every day gets harder and harder to tell myself "better things are coming" because I know they're not. Short of a violent revolution in the US, the screws are going to continue to tighten. Like, this is it. This is the culmination of my life's work, barely getting by.

I can't imagine being a teen in today's world. I guess the benefit is that they probably don't understand just how fucked they are.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#245

I believe the big 2016 bump is due to Trump. Does that have international impact? Since I'm German and still had daily news about his behavior I say yes. As far I can remember we never had so many news about any other US president. I mean Trump was very active on social media and was very attention seeking, much more than other presidents. Why would Trump cause depression? First of all he basically said all the thing…

Even as an adult the dude is hyper depressing.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#246

I think all the social media stuff is missing the mark. It's 100% bad but it's just trash filling the hole society is making. Looking top down at the problem, humans need self actualization or propose to be happy. Originally we evolved to live in medium sized social groups that worked together to ensure their survival, we took care of each other and that was what drove our purpose, or rather why that need evolved, it…

In other words, capitalism is bad for the earth and for the humans. Who would have thought!

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#247

I think all the social media stuff is missing the mark. It's 100% bad but it's just trash filling the hole society is making. Looking top down at the problem, humans need self actualization or propose to be happy. Originally we evolved to live in medium sized social groups that worked together to ensure their survival, we took care of each other and that was what drove our purpose, or rather why that need evolved, it…

Honestly, I think the fact that, as the headline says, "it's international" is evidence against what you're saying. Even though the post only covers the Anglosphere, I'm from Spain and the phenomenon also happens here and is often qouted as worrying (e.g. child and teen suicide trends: https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/OJt9haHrWhKMDEPsTtrj3g--/Y... ) I don't think the Spanish society is especially competitive - no on…

The Latin cultures certainly don’t have the same hustle and competitiveness as the US seems to have. In fact, it always sounded strange to me how in English they have this concept of a “loser” as an insult, as if losing in the rat race means you’re worthless as an individual.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The newspaper at least... stops once you've read it -- so that's what an hour (or whatever) gone of your day. That's a major difference, at least.

And you didn't carry it with you everywhere. It blows my mind that my kids will never know what it's like to wait for a bus with nothing else to do.

I barely remember what it was like waiting for the bus with nothing else to do. But I remember vividly what it was like that the school bully was next to me waiting for the bus with nothing else to do. Hope my kids don't have to know what thats like.

My point is not that smartphones and social media are great things. But I agree with OP that they are just filling a gap created by something else. It is still possible to be bored or have time solely with your own thoughts with social media available. Why? Because even kids can (and do) understand that social media is not all that great. Of course they have to experience that on their own before they understand it. It's nothing that you can teach them.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#249

People blame social media, but they never ask why social media is like that. I think that the cultural changes that lead to that have been running for far more time than people give credit for, and that social media is just the proverbial canary on the mine that made things explicit. Those changes are multi-generational changes, and more probably there are a multitude of factors behind it. Family structure, economy f…

What would reagonomics and the Vietnam War have to do with teen mental health in say northern Europe?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#250
post #8

Few deny that a drinking age is necessary. We also need a smart phone age. It's quite obvious that many teens are addicted to their phones and the mostly useless content they consume there.

You have to ask if the phone is to blame, or is it what we’re hiding from them by confiscating the phone ?
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