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Welcome to the end of college football as we know it

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21–30 of 71 posts

Re: Welcome to the end of college football as we know it

#21
post #8
post #4

Now that Stanford and Cal are in the ACC, there will be vastly more air travel, having environmental impact and lost time for academic study, which these two universities actually care about, and consequent fatigue for the players. Zoom classes on the long flights, or sleep? Same for other left (over) coast teams, but less impact.

I’m guessing that you grossly underestimate the academic support for athletes. 1. Most athletes take fewer and easier classes during their season, or the main part of their season. Missing credit hours can be made up for during the summer, which sometimes have easier classes. 2. Many athletes take easier majors in general. 3. Athletes have access to free tutors. Sometimes these tutors help, sometimes they help a lot…

My nephew plays football at a university in a Power Five (now Power Four?) conference. So far, he's experienced much of what you called out. But, they have held him to a far higher academic standard than I expected.

He went to junior college first. After his first year, his current university brought him to campus a few times for recruiting purposes, but they didn't end up making him an offer because of his grades. A year later, his grades were up, and he got an offer from that university.

At this university, bad grades will cause you to be dropped from the team and lose your scholarship, no matter how big a star you are. They drill this into the players and make it clear that they owe it to their teammates to keep their grades up. I didn't expect that, and I assume it's far from universal at this level, but I'm glad to see it.

It's also a great opportunity for my nephew. He and his parents don't have the resources for an education of this caliber (his parents are both teachers), but he is getting it because of football. And he's getting much more active support in that education (through things like the tutoring mentioned above). He'd love to play professionally. Now that he's the wise old age of 20, he understands how low the odds are, and he's making sure he gets an education that will lead to opportunities for a good non-athletic career. Not all of his teammates have that clarity, but he says a lot of them do. One of his teammates graduated before his football eligibility was used up, so he's now getting a master’s degree.

You can argue that it's not fair that football players get so many more resources thrown at them. But at this level, they are a huge source of funding for the university. Through things I've heard from his coaches (I've been lucky enough to meet the head coach, the offensive coordinator, and a few others), my guess is that the university brings in somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M/year from football and spends something like 30% of that on football and support for the players. That 30% is seen as protecting the rest of the $100M (if the team doesn't do well, that money is at risk). These numbers are for a university that is not a perennial top 20 team, so I'm sure the numbers can be significantly higher for the top football programs.

Re: Welcome to the end of college football as we know it

#22

This conference realignment is obviously a bad outcome. The leaders of the universities and American academia are delivering very poor results: education is too expensive, academic freedom is limited by outsiders, and now this. What good do the conference realignments do for anyone? Who is happy or better off? The Big 10, in particular, used to be both an athletic association and an academic one, sharing resources be…

Though it probably didn't factor into the Big Ten's decision to not invite Cal and Stanford, at some point their academic research cartel would end up attracting the attention of someone in government or politics that doesn't believe such a cartel serves the purpose of their research funders, primarily the US government. If Vanderbilt loses out on a grant that goes to a less appropriate research group at Nebraska simply because Vanderbilt is in the SEC while Nebraska is in the Big Ten, does that best serve the taxpayers funding the research? With Cal and Stanford in the cartel, the weight of those connections would be very heavy and hard to ignore.

Re: Welcome to the end of college football as we know it

#23

As an outsider with close to zero knowledge of American football, the spectacle of college athletics seems bizarre. I mean, I understand the old principle of _mens sana in corpore sano_ but it’s a stretch to imagine college athletics serving that goal for all but a very few students. I don’t doubt that the system has produced some academic success stories but it must be the exceptional case. Instead, the whole system…

College athletics is a pretty good system for promoting lesser-followed sports that would have difficulty maintaining an organized league -- team volleyball, swimming, field hockey, rowing, etc -- because it provides infrastructure and funding that would unlikely be available if reliant on revenue.

On the other hand, "amateur" leagues for popular sports (football, basketball) being associated with colleges is extremely effective at amplifying the interest of these leagues. Consider how little interest there would be in the "Ann Arbor Wolverines" vs "Columbus Buckeyes" in the USFL without any association with schools and their alumni, or whether anyone outside a 20-mile radius would watch Durham vs Chapel Hill if they played in the NBA's G-league.

Re: Welcome to the end of college football as we know it

#24
post #15

This conference realignment is obviously a bad outcome. The leaders of the universities and American academia are delivering very poor results: education is too expensive, academic freedom is limited by outsiders, and now this. What good do the conference realignments do for anyone? Who is happy or better off? The Big 10, in particular, used to be both an athletic association and an academic one, sharing resources be…

As a thought, faith has been lost in institutions, and society in general, and rightly so in many respects. But I think instead of feeling agency to fix the issues, people feel they have to either capitulate, break the system or work outside it entirely. I feel we forget, or don't teach, the fact that we built all of this, and for the purpose of our own benefit. Society and institutions have become antagonists in peo…

> faith has been lost in institutions, and society in general, and rightly so in many respects. But I think instead of feeling agency to fix the issues, people feel they have to either capitulate, break the system or work outside it entirely.

Yes, but it's bizarre to feel so hopeless. In this example, it worked (and we worked) far better for decades until a few years ago.

Re: Welcome to the end of college football as we know it

#25
post #8
post #4

Now that Stanford and Cal are in the ACC, there will be vastly more air travel, having environmental impact and lost time for academic study, which these two universities actually care about, and consequent fatigue for the players. Zoom classes on the long flights, or sleep? Same for other left (over) coast teams, but less impact.

I’m guessing that you grossly underestimate the academic support for athletes. 1. Most athletes take fewer and easier classes during their season, or the main part of their season. Missing credit hours can be made up for during the summer, which sometimes have easier classes. 2. Many athletes take easier majors in general. 3. Athletes have access to free tutors. Sometimes these tutors help, sometimes they help a lot…

> I’m guessing that you grossly underestimate the academic support for athletes.

> 1. Most athletes take fewer and easier classes during their season

This only makes sense if the goal of academia is to get students to pass tests, rather than to get them to learn.

Re: Welcome to the end of college football as we know it

#26

As an outsider with close to zero knowledge of American football, the spectacle of college athletics seems bizarre. I mean, I understand the old principle of _mens sana in corpore sano_ but it’s a stretch to imagine college athletics serving that goal for all but a very few students. I don’t doubt that the system has produced some academic success stories but it must be the exceptional case. Instead, the whole system…

College athletics is a pretty good system for promoting lesser-followed sports that would have difficulty maintaining an organized league -- team volleyball, swimming, field hockey, rowing, etc -- because it provides infrastructure and funding that would unlikely be available if reliant on revenue. On the other hand, "amateur" leagues for popular sports (football, basketball) being associated with colleges is extreme…

Are those sports accessible to anyone in the university who want to join? My knowledge is only founded by US movies/series and this is what what I get out of it is:

- male good enough at sport: can participate in sport

- good looking female: can participate in cheers/pompom girls

- male not good enough /female not in beauty standard: can’t participate, go to the free urban basketball field.

In the EU countries I know, sport is as mandatory as math until ~17year old, then universities sports clubs are open to anyone whatever how good you will perform. The budgets are low but you don’t need a ton of money to train/maintain your body in good condition.

Physical well being is as important as math (if not more) and I hope my knowledge of the US does not depict the reality.

Re: Welcome to the end of college football as we know it

#27
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m guessing that you grossly underestimate the academic support for athletes. 1. Most athletes take fewer and easier classes during their season, or the main part of their season. Missing credit hours can be made up for during the summer, which sometimes have easier classes. 2. Many athletes take easier majors in general. 3. Athletes have access to free tutors. Sometimes these tutors help, sometimes they help a lot…

My nephew plays football at a university in a Power Five (now Power Four?) conference. So far, he's experienced much of what you called out. But, they have held him to a far higher academic standard than I expected. He went to junior college first. After his first year, his current university brought him to campus a few times for recruiting purposes, but they didn't end up making him an offer because of his grades. A…

> He'd love to play professionally. Now that he's the wise old age of 20, he understands how low the odds are

Odds are low, but not zero, especially if he is at a power 5 school.

I have a relative who was in the nfl until recently. Some (summarized) comments from him:

- Focus on technique. There can be substantial differences in size, strength, and skill in college such that sloppy technique can often get the job done. Not so in the NFL. Good technique and good ability to be coached will an asset.

- Focus on good technique in the weight room. This will both develop the right kind of strength and lower risk of injury. Good flexibility via stretching and yoga are also an important part of strength training.

- Get nutrition right asap. This includes moderation of drinking and junk food. There will be people who can help with this.

- Don’t settle for good enough. Most of the future NFL guys are so good that the opponent has to plan around them specifically. Be that thorn in the opposition’s side.

> my guess is that the university brings in somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M/year from football and spends something like 30% of that on football and support for the players. That 30% is seen as protecting the rest of the $100M

Yep.

What many people don’t realize is that revenue from football and basketball fund or cover funding gaps for all of the other sports at the bigger schools.

Not to mention that alumni donations and quality of applicants increase when the high profile teams do well. Simple example, the University of Alabama has seen a substantial increase in out-of-state applicants since Saban arrived.

Best of luck to your nephew, and I hope he makes it to the NFL.

Re: Welcome to the end of college football as we know it

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College athletics is a pretty good system for promoting lesser-followed sports that would have difficulty maintaining an organized league -- team volleyball, swimming, field hockey, rowing, etc -- because it provides infrastructure and funding that would unlikely be available if reliant on revenue. On the other hand, "amateur" leagues for popular sports (football, basketball) being associated with colleges is extreme…

Are those sports accessible to anyone in the university who want to join? My knowledge is only founded by US movies/series and this is what what I get out of it is: - male good enough at sport: can participate in sport - good looking female: can participate in cheers/pompom girls - male not good enough /female not in beauty standard: can’t participate, go to the free urban basketball field. In the EU countries I know…

You left out female good enough at sport.

Also not from US, but campi usually have a great physical structure for sport practice. So, even if not part of the team, you have easy access to play the sport with friends.

Re: Welcome to the end of college football as we know it

#30

As an outsider with close to zero knowledge of American football, the spectacle of college athletics seems bizarre. I mean, I understand the old principle of _mens sana in corpore sano_ but it’s a stretch to imagine college athletics serving that goal for all but a very few students. I don’t doubt that the system has produced some academic success stories but it must be the exceptional case. Instead, the whole system…

College football and basketball seem mainly to function as publicity for the schools and, when the teams are winning, help them to get the alumni to donate more. And serve as entertainment for the non athlete students. It's profoundly weird and completely unrelated to the academic functions of the university. Lots of people confuse schools with good sports teams for schools with strong academics.
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