Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did you torque every bolt every time before every flight?
Every bolt you could see was checked before every flight yes. Every important bolt you couldn’t see during inspection was torqued, witnessed by QA, secured via safety wire or cotter pin, and secondary torque holding was then inspected by QA. This thing is obviously not just an interior part, look at the meat in those castings, and it’s obviously safety critical, look at the cotter pins on other bolts. Sounds like it…
United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections
751–760 of 773 posts
Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections
#752Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections
#753Earlier quoted context omitted.
So should something as mission critical as an aircraft manufacturing co have some ownership/oversight that's not public shareholders? Give the NTSB a few seats on the board
Who do you think the NTSB are? The NTSB is staffed with people familiar with the industry - it has to be. Thus, a significant portion of these people are former Boeing employees. And historically, many NTSB staff have gone to work for Boeing (and other industry giants) after their stint at the NTSB as well. It's not that large of an industry after all. This is known as the Revolving Door.
> This is known as the Revolving Door.
Regulatory capture
Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections
#754Earlier quoted context omitted.
We may be talking about different levels of management here. A manager should not be making technical decisions, they should have team leads and architects who do that. It's their job to manage the team, interface with the business, prioritise work and give cover to the team so they can get on with it. I guess if you have a manager who is making technical decisions, they are really a hybrid manager/contributor role.…
Then what exactly is the non technical manager's added value? He has no experience to lead the team in high pressure situations. Like production being down. He can't truly have a first person understanding of the work of the people who he manages. He has to rely upon others to tell him who's good and who's bad. That sets up a pecking order. He can't help or mentor engineers with design decisions, or provide a histori…
To me, the role you are describing is a principal engineer or team lead, not a manager.
Simply not true however that a good manager can't lead the team in a high pressure situation. I'd say that exactly what a good manager could do well. Obviously they won't be making overtly technical decisions, that's what you are for. They can make business decisions, provide cover, get resources, communicate to other stakeholders... All the bits that need doing but would be a huge hassle for the techies who are trying to fix the issue.
Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections
#755Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sigh... This myth that the only people who can competently manage developers are other developers has been floating round for decades. For some reason, developers seem remarkably blind to the skills other roles and disciplines require. Only a developer can do that, everyone else is basically useless fluff. Maybe it's a form of arrogance or just deep unself-awareness.
Let's apply your reasoning to medicine. I'm sure you would be completely fine with managers telling your surgeon what parts of the surgery can be 'optimized away'.
How to tell everyone that you never worked inside a hospital ...
Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections
#756Earlier quoted context omitted.
Culture problem as we hire people of a generation who were not educated or engrained with responsibility they avoid doing the right thing and this happens.
I agree. We need way younger CEOs (and legislators!). This current crop is perfectly fine rushing QA to ship defective products as long as it lines their own pockets. In industries where failures won't directly kill people they actually plan the obsolescence to happen. Leadership from a more environmentally-conscious and empathetic Gen Z would definitely have safer products that last longer.
Also an issue, short term success does not equal long term success. Lots of people in the c-suite management are short sighted making 1 year goals and not more.
For example a company of 400 people laying off vital talent is literally shooting themselves in the foot. If I was a CEO I would take a cut till I could course correct. Losing talent with a layoff is way more expensive.
You end up paying three to six months for that talent to not work. This is a huge problem.
Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections
#757Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then what exactly is the non technical manager's added value? He has no experience to lead the team in high pressure situations. Like production being down. He can't truly have a first person understanding of the work of the people who he manages. He has to rely upon others to tell him who's good and who's bad. That sets up a pecking order. He can't help or mentor engineers with design decisions, or provide a histori…
To me, the role you are describing is a principal engineer or team lead, not a manager. Simply not true however that a good manager can't lead the team in a high pressure situation. I'd say that exactly what a good manager could do well. Obviously they won't be making overtly technical decisions, that's what you are for. They can make business decisions, provide cover, get resources, communicate to other stakeholders…
I don’t see much value added by a manager that you described. What you are describing is more of a product manager role.
Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections
#758Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're finding problems on multiple aircrafts. This isn't one QA. In fact, forget QA missing this. Bolts on aerospace systems are supposed to be properly torqued and arrested in most cases. How do the assembly people make such big mistakes? In my experience, no one puts their job on the line over silly reasons like this, unless there is intense pressure (unrealistic deadlines, heavy workload and poor working conditi…
Perhaps DEI hires that don't have to do their full duties because expecting them to is racist or transphobic or something stupid and they'll be protected by their manager who got shafted in his last performance review because he had too many "white males" on staff.
Do you have any reasonable justifications to base that speculation on, or are you just using this as an opportunity to target people racially or based on orientation? This sounds oddly similar to how Boeing tried to save their own skin by pinning the blame on foreign-trained foreign pilots when their own mismanagement in the form of 737 Max 8 MCAS killed hundreds of passengers.
Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections
#759Earlier quoted context omitted.
The management imported from McDonnel-Douglas? The same management that drove it to ground? The fish rots from the head. And these constant problems sure do sound like a new company culture of cutting corners instead engineering first.
Wby the rush to judgement ("The fish rots from the head."). What was done and not done will be traced and the causes determined with good old engineering and detective work. Responsibility will be revealed and the proper parties punished. Rushing to judgement merely obscures the true responsibilities.
Given Boeing’s success in getting passes directly from Congress, that could be plausibly too rational given the current circumstances. Boeing got to where they are because your outcomes didn’t actually happen.
Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections
#760Earlier quoted context omitted.
It wasn’t in the military. Doing this would land you in Leavenworth.
What I mean is: clearly that's not the case in the civilian world. Though it should be!
I think if someone falsified records of witnessing torque on these bolts when they didn’t, they could easily be held criminally liable had someone died in this incident. I’m not a lawyer but my plain reading of involuntary manslaughter seems to fit this.