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SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

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Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockchain is not a technology in the sense of being a better "how" for some existing problem. blockchain is before anything else, a social contract based on the premise that everything humans care about ('value') really does boil down to "voting with money," and thus requiries enforcement of such economic consensus through technology. It is sufficiently removed from expectations people normally have about how they r…

> a social contract requiring enforcement through technology That's fundamentally a bad thing. I want my social contracts enforced socially. The rot is at the heart.

No disagreement here, not a fan.* but so many arguments miss this point. the problems with blockchain are rooted in the why; the how is mostly a sideshow but admittedly much more expedient to criticize in comparison.

* were not for HN's character limit my username would have started with the word 'block'

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#432
post #226

Why do government agencies even have accounts on proprietary walled-garden online platforms? Those are for purposes like celebrity publicists, influencer brand promotion, disreputable mob behavior, and astroturfing. The SEC doesn't need brand promotion, nor to be caught up in nastiness like pervades X/Twitter. The SEC already has the authority, they do their job with it, and presumably they value respectability. Earl…

They do post their press releases on their .gov website, and they do have RSS feeds:

https://www.sec.gov/news/pressreleases

https://www.sec.gov/about/sec-rss

It looks like their tweets just link to their press releases on their website, though they're in random order for me and I can't see whether they have any replies or whatever, so I could be missing something.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#433
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TAM on homeless friends who need fast cash internationally on Sundays is probably huge.

Nice little bubble you live in. 18% of US population is unbanked or underbanked.

I’m straining to see the relevance of that, especially since at one point in my life I was a member of that statistic.

One thing I definitely didn’t need any more of back then was glamorized systems of financial predation and exploitation targeting me because of it. There’s no version of the world where the cryptocurrency ecosystem as it actually is, rather than how it is idealized to be, would have made my plight better had it existed at the time.

In any case, it still seems like a non-sequitur.

I’m just laughing at the premise that the many, many, many billion dollar investments and valuations of cryptocurrency firms, and the unending deluge of fraud and scams they reliably leave in their wake is meaningfully offset by the total amount of money transacted in the niche of homeless friends who need fast cash from their wealthy friend who is half way around the world outside of normal business hours. I mean, if that’s the case, then it would really behoove Western Union and MoneyGram to keep a few locations open on the weekend.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#434
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some extent that's just how bitcoin works [1] To your last question, bitcoin is just digital gold. Unlike ethereum which is inflationary. [1]: https://river.com/learn/terms/c/change-output

Meanwhile in the real world we often find new deposits of gold, and if we ever make it to space presumably we’ll find a whole lot more of it (perhaps infinite amounts).

but until space we have a finite amount of gold. Current known gold mines will be mined out at around 2030 and there is about 30 - 100k tons of gold left in unexploited gold.

Current gold reserves by country: United States: 8,133 tons Germany: 3,359 tons Italy: 2,452 tons France: 2,436 tons Russia: 2,299 tons China: 1,948 tons Switzerland: 1,040 tons Japan: 846 tons India: 754 tons Netherlands: 612 tons

Around 30% of known gold in the earths crust is accounted for. Nations included in the "BRICS Meme" have been purchasing large amount of gold and would like to see us return to a gold standard for monetary and policy reasons.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#435
post #80

Is this fabled Bitcoin ETF really going to be the "to the moon" moment that everyone in the ecosystem seems to be expecting? From personal experience, I can't think of anyone who wants to buy Bitcoin but hasn't been able to by now. It takes a few clicks on Coinbase/Robinhood or a similar exchange. Plenty of 401k/IRA managers (including Fidelity) offer it as an option. So what exactly changes once this ETF is live?

Bitcoin futures ETF's are already allowed - several exist and they track the BTC:USD rate relatively accurately. I'm not sure that a spot price ETF is really a huge breakthrough in terms of actual mechanics. But approval is an opportunity to create hype and buzz around cryptocurrency.

Bitcoin futures are correlated but nowhere near a 1:1 proxy for spot markets. Crypto markets are known for very steep "contango" in the curve, and it's not unusual for the price of the 30 days futures to be more than $1000 away from the current Bitcoin price.

The issue isn't just additional volatility and tracking error, but the fact that the con tango creates a "roll yield" which affects the long-term returns of the strategy. To keep constant maturity exposure, the futures ETF has to constantly "roll" its positions into further dated contracts. In particular because the market tends to be in contango it means further dated futures tend to be higher priced than near dated futures. So usually the futures ETFs in their daily rebalancing are selling cheap near dated contracts for more expensive longer dated contracts. Hence the roll yield tends to be negative. Then add all the transaction costs from daily rebalancing. It should be clear why the futures strategy has inferior returns to simply holding spot.

Spot Bitcoin ETFs truly are a game changer compared to futures ETFSs.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the long history of price manipulation in traditional markets?

The old crypto chants were that crypto would lead us away from the ills of traditional markets/finance. Glad to see that it's been watered down to "just as bad as" arguments.

When was that the chant? They said more financial inclusiveness and self sovereignty. There are some with code is law and more cypherpunk ideals that is true. The early internet and open source movement had similar movements and these people still exist trying to improve society. Once things become mainstream the majority of focus becomes business and what products/services it can provide. The same companies in this space focused on business want clear regulation not lack of it.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#437
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so is economic growth by printing USDs. Let's see which one collapses first.

I'm not sure if you're betting on the collapse of the USD, the collapse of economic growth or the collapse of the US economy.

For discussion purposed just a few historical fiat currencies, since your confidence in USD seems a bit overblown, especially for a currency whose issuer is now spending more on interest payments than their military, an indicator of possible future instability as a store of value.

1. German Weimar Republic (Germany) - The German Mark, introduced in 1924 after World War I, was originally intended to replace the hyperinflated German Papiermark. However, the Great Depression and military reparations led to massive deficit spending, resulting in hyperinflation starting around 1921. By 1923, one US dollar equaled approximately 4.2 trillion Reichsmarks.

2. French Revolutionary Franc (France) - After the French Revolution in the late 18th century, France's new revolutionary government issued the assignats, which were paper money used as part of a monetary reform program. Initially, these notes held value due to their being backed by goods such as grain; however, excessive printing eventually led to severe hyperinflation between 1796 and 1797, where prices rose exponentially.

3. Hungarian Pengő (Hungary) - Introduced in 1946, the Hungarian pengő suffered from rampant inflation due to economic mismanagement and Marshall Plan aid exchange rates. Between 1945 and 1946, the exchange rate for one US dollar was set at HUF 52, but due to various factors, including nationalization, hyperinflation reached an estimated 44 quadrillions to the US dollar by 1946.

4. Zimbabwean Dollar (Zimbabwe) - Succeeding the British colonial Rhodesian dollar, Zimbabwe adopted its own fiat currency, the Zimbabwean dollar, upon independence in 1980. Hyperinflation began in the mid-1970s, and by November 2004, it had become virtually worthless, forcing the country to abandon it.

5. Mexican Peso (Mexico) - Following the Mexican-American war, Mexico faced significant debt. To finance the national debt, a silver peso coin was minted. Despite its initial value, hyperinflation struck, and by the late 19th century, the Mexican peso became almost worthless. Numerous attempts at currency stabilization failed until the introduction of the "El Banco" gold standard in 1914.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#438
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter/X is not an authoritative source of news, regardless of whether it is an "official" account doing the Tweeting or not. Anyone can get a blue check by paying $8/mo.

The SEC twitter account has a grey check, which you cannot get by paying $8. https://twitter.com/SECGov

What makes you think crypto grifters can't get a grey check?

https://files.catbox.moe/ruag6b.png

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We really really really need some legislation about governmental agencies using privately owned companies to announce things. What kind of legislation? There's a whole lot of existing law that applies in that domain (both statute and Constitutional case law), but if you think we need different laws, it probably helps to at least present the general shape of the law you want rather than just that it should in some w…

An example might be that the government sets up its own very basic one-way tweet-like notification service, something as simple as or simpler than an RSS feed, with the official content accessible directly via a .gov hosted web page. Whatever X is or becomes, as owned by private interests, is trusted with nothing more than scraping and rebroadcasting the original and authentic source. A solution with less developer a…

It looks like all of their tweets are just links to items on the news room portion of their website. If you click around a little there, you'll see that they do have RSS feeds:

https://www.sec.gov/page/news

https://www.sec.gov/about/sec-rss

So it looks like they're already doing exactly what you suggest: they post official announcements on their website which you can subscribe to using the standard way to do that (RSS), and they also rebroadcast on Twitter by linking back to the original source. What should they be doing differently? Periodically tweet reminders that you can subscribe directly to their RSS feeds? Stop posting to Twitter at all and leave only a message that you can find official news on their website?

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