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Python 3.13 Gets a JIT

tonybaloney.github.io

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Re: Python 3.13 Gets a JIT

#331

Post by Redoubts »

amelius wrote: post #206
CJefferson wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of what made Python so successful was how easy it was to extend with C modules. It turns out to be very hard to JIT Python without breaking these, and most people don’t want a Python that doesn’t support C extension modules. The JavaScript VMs often break their extensions APIs for speed, but their users are more used to this.

On the other hand, rewriting the C modules and adapting them to a different C API is very straightforward after you've done 1 or 2 of such modules. Perhaps it's even something that could be done by training an LLM like Copilot.

That's breakage you'd have to tread carefully on; and given the 2to3 experience, there would have to be immediate reward to entice people to undertake the conversion. No one's interested in even minor code breakage for minor short-term gain.

Re: Python 3.13 Gets a JIT

#332

Post by EmilStenstrom »

It's interesting to see these 2-9% improvements from version to version. They are always talked about with disappointment, as if they are too small, but they also keep coming, with each version being faster than the previous one. I prefer a steady 10% per version over breaking things because you are hoping for bigger numbers. Those percentages add up!

Re: Python 3.13 Gets a JIT

#334

Post by klyrs »

wrd83 wrote: post #17

Honestly I don't understand the pessimistic view here. I think every release since Microsoft started funding python has increased high single digit best case performance. Rather than focussing on the raw number compare to python 3.5 or so. It's still getting significantly faster. If they keep doing this steady pace they are slowly saving the planet!

Julia is my source of pessimism. Julia is super fast once it's warmed up, but before it gets there, it's painfully slow. They seem to be making progress on this, but it's been gradual. I understand that Java had similar growing pains, but it's better now. Combined with the boondoggle of py3, I'm worried for the future of my beloved language as it enters another phase of transformation.

Re: Python 3.13 Gets a JIT

#335

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

poncho_romero wrote: post #325
lucidguppy wrote: post #95

If python became fast, there's a chance it may become a language eater.

What languages do you think it could realistically eat (that it hasn’t already)?

I'd love to see it eat JavaScript and Java for back-end code.

But I doubt that's going to ever happen.

Re: Python 3.13 Gets a JIT

#336

Post by adastra22 »

masklinn wrote: post #116
adastra22 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pytthon standard lib calls out to hand optimized assembly language versions of the crypto algos. It is of no relevance to a JIT-vs-interpreted debate.

It absolutely is relevant to the "python is slow reee" nonsense tho, which is the subject. Python-the-language being slow is not relevant for a lot of the users, because even if they don't know they use Python mostly as a convenient interface to huge piles of native code which does the actual work. And as noted upthread that's a significant part of the uptake of Python in scientific fields, and why pypy despite the h…

There is pleeeenty of mission critical stuff written in Python, for which interpreter speed is a primary concern. This has been true for decades. Maybe not in your industry, but there are other Python users.

Re: Python 3.13 Gets a JIT

#337

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

systems wrote: post #292
dbrueck wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each his own, but the things you list are largely subjective/inaccurate, and there are many, many, many developers who use Python because they enjoy it and like it a lot.

Python is a very widely used language, and like any popular thing, yes many many many like it , and many many many dislike it .. it is that big, python can be disliked by a million developer and still be a lot more liked than disliked but i also think that its true that python is not and have not been for a while considered as a modern or technically advanced language the hype currently is for typed or gradually type…

> but for devs passionate about programming languages, python is a relic they hope vanish

If you asked me what language I would consider to be a relic that I hope would vanish, I'd go with Perl.

Re: Python 3.13 Gets a JIT

#338

Post by meisel »

Why has it taken so much longer for CPython to get a JIT than, say, PyPy? I would imagine the latter has far less engineering effort and funding put into it.

Re: Python 3.13 Gets a JIT

#340

Post by mattgruskin »

crabbone wrote: post #240
jjice wrote: post #200

The last two-ish years have been insane for Python performance. Something clicked with the core team and they obviously made this a serious goal of theirs and the last few years have been incredible to see.

[flagged]

Microsoft already tried Python on the CLR! They didn't stick with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IronPython
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