Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013)

#91

Post by bheadmaster » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 8:01 AM UTC

threethree wrote: post #57

godzillabrennus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever since Snapchat exploded in popularity I’ve decided bad UI is a gen z feature. They flock to difficult to use interfaces that become an insider feature for young folks to keep their parents out.

Very interesting. Yeah I think bad UI could be a way to gatekeep. 4chan for example has its mostly-unchanged now old-school interface, with its own quote/reply system, which some call an IQ barrier. That plus all the lingo. It typically gives out outsiders (journalists, govt agents, new users etc)

> 4chan for example has its mostly-unchanged now old-school interface, with its own quote/reply system, which some call an IQ barrier

I doubt it would be an IQ barrier, considering the apparent intelligence of many of the posters there. I would rather call it a "normie filter" - the UI is so old-school ("ugly") that "normies", who usually dwell on fancy UI sites like Facebook, Reddit, etc., will consider it lame and avoid it.

I also think this site employs the same filter, whether intentionally or not.

Re: Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013)

#92

Post by pprotas » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 8:09 AM UTC

godzillabrennus wrote: post #38

bithive123 wrote: post #31

Although not really part of a UI's "design", performance is often overlooked as well. A poorly performing UI violates every single one of these design rules. My sony android smart TV looks amazing but the UI is so slow as to be unusable. An unstable UI that is always changing also violates most of these principles. Smart TVs seem to be exceptionally bad in this area too, with the home screen layout and app icons freq…

Ever since Snapchat exploded in popularity I’ve decided bad UI is a gen z feature. They flock to difficult to use interfaces that become an insider feature for young folks to keep their parents out.

Interesting, after reading your comment I've decided bad UI is subjective. I'm gen z, and never found Snapchat's UI to be confusing, and none of my gen z friends have ever complained about it, either.

> They flock to difficult to use interfaces that become an insider feature for young folks to keep their parents out.

This part might be true on a subconscious level (or it might be part of Snapchat's design philosophy), but do you think younger generations really choose apps for this reason on purpose?

Re: Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013)

#93

Post by euroderf » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 8:54 AM UTC

breadwinner wrote: post #27

> gray out menu items that are not appropriate Don't do this unless it is obvious why it is grayed out. Commands should be left enabled, then an error message should be displayed when the command is clicked and the command is unavailable, and in this case explain why it is presently unavailable. It is frustrating to the user to figure out why a command is disabled. The only time to not leave commands enabled is if th…

> Commands should be left enabled, then an error message should be displayed when the command is clicked and the command is unavailable, and in this case explain why it is presently unavailable.

An exception to this: premium (for-pay) features.

There is a certain To-Do app that does this. Premium commands are visually indistinguishable from freemium commands, so they get clicked a lot and they interrupt the entire experience with nag dialogs.

A serious UI error IMO.

Re: Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013)

#94

Post by nirimda » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 9:00 AM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #83

GMoromisato wrote: post #81

The one "rule" I wish it covered is about surfacing/exposing the conceptual model to the user. If I don't understand the conceptual model of the product, I will always be confused, no matter how well-labeled the icons are. For example, imagine a product that has a "New Configuration" command. What is a "Configuration"? Is it like a template that lets me define other objects? Is it a way to rapidly switch between diff…

Point of good interface is to hide implementation detail while guiding you towards your goal.

To be clear - the conceptual space the software is built around isn't an implementation detail. It's the way you reach your goal; it necessarily imposes a burden on the user. A good conceptual space presses less heavily against the user, but you can't obscure the notion that there are containers in a file system but not a relational database.

Re: Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013)

#95

Post by marapuru » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 9:06 AM UTC

bbor wrote: post #4

Can an expert explain some context here?? This seems like a less-well-phrased version of Norman’s principles, which were the ones I was taught in HCI class. The author is clearly some sort of textbook author so they know what they’re talking about, but these principles seem like they were written without considering past work. Like “short term memory load” seems like a phrase that would be replaced by “cognitive load…

This post also reminded me of Nielsens' Heuristics. I can still recall them by heart and never heard of Shneiderman.

I can't shake the feeling that Nielsen (& Norman) simply marketed and productized their principles way better.

Re: Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013)

#96

Post by verinus » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 9:09 AM UTC

breadwinner wrote: post #27

> gray out menu items that are not appropriate Don't do this unless it is obvious why it is grayed out. Commands should be left enabled, then an error message should be displayed when the command is clicked and the command is unavailable, and in this case explain why it is presently unavailable. It is frustrating to the user to figure out why a command is disabled. The only time to not leave commands enabled is if th…

I disagree. Disabling an action that is not feasible in the current context IS helpful, but ONLY if you provide an explanation on WHY.

UIs that simply disable certain actions without telling me why always infuriate me :(

Re: Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013)

#97

Post by eviks » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 9:25 AM UTC

Looks like a good list, though missing are customization (technically you could tuck customization into "user control", but it's too important for that) and composability (which also helps with 8 memory load - you can remember 'primitive' actions that compose well easier, and that memory would be reinforced with repetition)

Re: Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013)

#98

Post by eviks » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 9:30 AM UTC

graypegg wrote: post #7

A designer I worked with years ago had a great explanation for why consistency is important. It’s not about a limited colour palette or a careful selection of fonts no one will ever notice. Chasing the specifics makes horrible software. Some people equate less diversity in their UI to more consistency. It’s about letting someone become an expert in your software. Microsoft office was always his example. People pride…

How can MS Office be this example when shortcut modification is awful there, as well as Ribbon customization??? People pride themselves on all the nonsense they've invested a huge deal of time into, that's not an indication of any quality or UI excellence Vim is another prime example of extremely user unfriendly UI design, breaking most of the principles from the linked article (but similarly, with folks who've invested a few metric tons of effort into fixing it will pride themselves)

Re: Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013)

#99

Post by eviks » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 9:34 AM UTC

infotainment wrote: post #6

Some good stuff here, but generally I’d disagree with: > Prevent errors: As much as possible, design the interface so that users cannot make serious errors; for example, gray out menu items that are not appropriate and do not allow alphabetic characters in numeric entry fields (Section 3.3.5 This sounds nice in theory, but in practice too many guardrails like this will just confuse users. “Why can’t I type text here?…

> will just confuse users. “Why can’t I type text here??” It’s often better to allow mistakes but also offer immediate explanatory feedback if something is incorrect.

No, it's better to prevent a mistake and offer immediate explanatory feedback why something is incorrect. For example, the answer to "why can't I type text here??" would be a message explaining that no text is allowed, only numbers.

Re: Golden Rules of Interface Design (2013)

#100

Post by guardian5x » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 9:38 AM UTC

I would like to add: "Live up to expectations" in a sense that there are so many Websites or UIs there, that most users have some sort of expectations, on where to find the menu, how to go back etc. How this and that buttons should behave. Even though, you might have a great idea, it might just confuse the user, if it is totally different than what the "standard" is.