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United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

theaircurrent.com

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Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#311
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair it seems there is an image of some of the loose bolts: https://nitter.net/ByERussell/status/1744460136855294106 I think this should stick out to an assembly person as not quite right.

That lock nut may not have lined up correctly for some reason and was backed off a bit to get the pin in? That could make it torqued under spec. But also, it doesn't look like that bolt clamps anything so it may not matter if it was a little "loose"..

[deleted]

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#312

Makes you wonder if there was malice involved?

I really doubt it is but important to keep in mind that foreign governments running active espionage campaigns against Boeing. The French have dozens of agents. This is from a conversation I had with a person who works in a large counter espionage group at Boeing. This was corporate espionage not defense but I'm sure there's a group for that.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#313
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC every bolt's torque value needs to be logged any time it's (re)fastened. At least that's true for aircraft engine maintenance, not sure if it applies to the assembly process of the airframe, I'd sure hope so!

Which doesn't rule out, say, a design flaw that allows the bolt to loosen over time under certain circumstances.

That's why we have safety wire, which is all over aviation construction.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#314
post #223
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They generally don't disassemble the entire plane every time they get inspected...

IIRC every bolt's torque value needs to be logged any time it's (re)fastened. At least that's true for aircraft engine maintenance, not sure if it applies to the assembly process of the airframe, I'd sure hope so!

> IIRC every bolt's torque value needs to be logged any time it's (re)fastened.

So how did this happen if they we checked so recently?

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#315
post #160

So, about that Max 10 on which you were hoping to get fast-track approval...

Airbus must be having a fantastic week.

Airbus is sold out on A320s until the 2030s already.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-01-08/alaska...

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do disassemble the entire plane for heavy maintenance checks every 6-12 years. The MAX 9 has been in operation for just a few weeks though...

That’s pretty incredible. After a heavy maintenance breakdown, what percentage of the plane gets replaced? Or is everything already on a routine maintenance schedule so the intention is to visually identify unexpectedly failing parts?

Probably still not every single sub-sub-sub-component.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#317
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't the bolts be safety wired after being torqued?

Does wiring bolts actually help? I feel like if a bolt is going to come loose enough such that the wire is all that is holding it in then you have a big problem already. The wire is just delaying the inevitable. A bolt is either fastened or it isn’t. If the wire is all that’s left to hold it, then it isn’t fastened and your parts are being held together with a very weak piece of wire.

The wire or pin doesn't support any of the load. It is there to prevent any vibration from allowing a nut or bolt to rotate.

https://fastenerengineering.com/what-is-a-castellated-nut-an...

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Boeing has insufficient competition, they don't have to care because their customers have limited alternatives. If they don't have to care then they don't have to care if their subcontractors care. They also have limited fear of regulators because the US government will be wary about damaging the country's sole supplier in an important industry. Break them up and it's easier for both the market and the government…

And how would you break up Boeing to create more competition for civil airliners exactly?

Make five of them that each have full rights to the existing company's designs and split their existing physical plant between them. Does one of the new companies have the only plant that makes a certain type of component? That's fine, customers can buy from them like they buy from the existing Boeing, but now the other sister companies have the incentive to build another plant to compete for that business, and the first company has the incentive to keep prices competitive to deter them from doing that. For five years they have to sell to each other for cost, giving them enough time to either negotiate with each other or build new facilities.

They all have the rights to the existing designs, and can create derivatives, but they don't automatically get the rights to the others' derivatives, so they have the incentive to specialize or develop new designs to find a niche, for the same reason the Boeing 737 isn't an exact clone of the Airbus A320 or vice versa.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are mutual recognition agreements between the regulators and if the europeans try something like that, the americans can create counter measures to even the field in a mutually undesired spiral. At this moment, the biggest enemy of Boeing is Boeing itself.

I’m not sure I understand what you are getting at. I’m assuming that the US is less likely to demand costly changes to aircraft produced by Boeing because of the implications it would have for their own economy. I wouldn’t trust France to preemptive ground a series of Airbus planes either.

[deleted]

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#320
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't the bolts be safety wired after being torqued?

Does wiring bolts actually help? I feel like if a bolt is going to come loose enough such that the wire is all that is holding it in then you have a big problem already. The wire is just delaying the inevitable. A bolt is either fastened or it isn’t. If the wire is all that’s left to hold it, then it isn’t fastened and your parts are being held together with a very weak piece of wire.

The safety wire comes in to prevent a loose bolt from gently unscrewing itself further and completely disassembling itself (which can happen with vibration).

You're much better off with a loose bolt, than a missing one. It'll hopefully make itself known somehow (maybe even just visual inspection) while still remaining somewhat attached, which is better than nothing.

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