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Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

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Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#371

Post by RocketOne »

stemlord wrote: post #370
bitwidget wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're spending an extra 8 hours to marginally (at best) improve safety? I'd be willing to bet good money that you partake in wildly more risky activity (such as driving or even walking down the street). This feels almost like virtue signaling without it being virtue signaling.

FWIW being involved in a commercial airliner accident is an order of magnitude more terrifying a prospect than getting in a car accident. If there's a one in a million chance that multiple of my worst nightmares could be realized-- plummeting from 30,000ft, being stranded in the middle of the ocean at night, enduring such things due to the hubris, greed, bullshittery of some shmucks currently warm and cozy in their m…

100% agree. As a former airline employee at a major airline, I've given up flying altogether. I've heard the 'but driving to the airport is more dangerous than flying' argument a zillion times. That's not the point. The point is that flying has become incredibly intrusive and uncomfortable and the fact that in addition to being treated like cattle, having to endure the security theatre, the indignity of being rushed around only to sit and wait, cancels/delays, rude people and or belligerent or mentally disturbed flyers, ug... it's just not fun anymore.

THEN add on the fact that there's a one in a million chance your plane may open up and accidentally cast you into the abyss and I say, just give me a car, my snacks, my music, my full seat, and the ability to stop and use the washroom when I want and Im good to drive across the country. Flying bites.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#372

Post by michaelcampbell »

RocketOne wrote: post #371
stemlord wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW being involved in a commercial airliner accident is an order of magnitude more terrifying a prospect than getting in a car accident. If there's a one in a million chance that multiple of my worst nightmares could be realized-- plummeting from 30,000ft, being stranded in the middle of the ocean at night, enduring such things due to the hubris, greed, bullshittery of some shmucks currently warm and cozy in their m…

100% agree. As a former airline employee at a major airline, I've given up flying altogether. I've heard the 'but driving to the airport is more dangerous than flying' argument a zillion times. That's not the point. The point is that flying has become incredibly intrusive and uncomfortable and the fact that in addition to being treated like cattle, having to endure the security theatre, the indignity of being rushed…

> I've heard the 'but driving to the airport is more dangerous than flying' argument a zillion times. That's not the point.

That's not YOUR point. The head of this thread (although to be fair, didn't SAY, but implied) he was swapping planes for safety. And that he's still flying, just on a different plane model, seems to reinforce that it was THEIR point.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#373

Post by qxfys »

bitwidget wrote: post #323
qxfys wrote: post #154

For the past two months, I have been avoiding 4 737max flights already. This is to the extent that one of them was to transit for 10 hours (without max), compared to a 2-hour convenient layover with 737max. I guess this will stay as my personal rule of thumb for the foreseeable future.

You're spending an extra 8 hours to marginally (at best) improve safety? I'd be willing to bet good money that you partake in wildly more risky activity (such as driving or even walking down the street). This feels almost like virtue signaling without it being virtue signaling.

Well, avoiding a specific airplane model, especially one with a notorious history like the 737MAX, isn't about 'marginally improving safety'; it's about making an informed choice based on known risks.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#374

Post by qxfys »

bormaj wrote: post #334
bitwidget wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're spending an extra 8 hours to marginally (at best) improve safety? I'd be willing to bet good money that you partake in wildly more risky activity (such as driving or even walking down the street). This feels almost like virtue signaling without it being virtue signaling.

Statistically it might be safe, but the vast majority of people are still going to make decisions based on perceived risk. As a customer, how else can you send your feedback to Boeing (and the airlines) that this level of perceived risk is unacceptable? It's clear there are issues at the company and Boeing is unlikely to respond unless there are financial consequences.

Well, for me. I never care about this feedback thing. It is apparent from the situation that Boeing had enough feedback (and scrutinization) from everyone after lion air 610 and ethiopian 302.

The fact that they refuse to fix the problem after Lion 610, such that Ethiopian 302 faced the same fate, is, at least for me, horrendously wrong.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#375

Post by qxfys »

bormaj wrote: post #349
bitwidget wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me a betting man, but I'd be willing to bet yet even more money that at least 95% of people don't even know what plane they're getting on during their trip. And of that 5% left, only a handful people would rebook their flights at an increased expense of money/time to signal to Boeing that 737 max is unsafe. The handful of people doing it are bordering on virtue signaling. With that said, however, I really dislik…

Yeah, it's 100% a shitty situation for the customer. I personally haven't checked the plane ahead of time for any of my flights, but with all the recent failures/headlines I am much more inclined to do so. Not out of virtue signalling, but out of my own peace of mind.

I am unsure if this applied to all the flights, but most flights I booked showed the airplane model before I paid. I guess this is a good thing for customers, i.e., one can make an informed decision without too much hassle by manually checking the flight history.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#376

Post by parineum »

mft_ wrote: post #369
parineum wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you’re okay with companies (effectively) acting like mobsters, in their own pecuniary interest I didn't say that. I said I'm okay with them lobbying for their interests and that am open to the idea that some industries might be over-regulated and that the companies in that industry are in the best position to know that. > you expect every (individual, human) government official to act morally and correctly in every…

Eh, I was being a touch snarky using your mobster analogy back at you somewhat out of context, but other than that, I wasn't really straw-manning much at all. I guess the root of where we seem to disagree is the extent to which it's reasonable for companies to lobby, and the extent to which we believe it's reasonable to expect government employees to be the last bastion of reason and good conduct, despite everything…

> successfully, resulting in Congress effectively overruling the FAA

How many of the Congress people who voted for this are going to be re-elected?

It's congresses authority at the end of the day and it's our responsibility to hold them accountable.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#377

Post by Eisenstein »

_heimdall wrote: post #368
Eisenstein wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never made that claim and wouldn't defend it. I was arguing that consumers collectively have some power over corporations via their wallets. Consumers can choose not to fly on commercial airlines, or specifically not to take flights on certain models of plane. I never said anything about them being beholden to the public, only the dollar. Regulation is the answer to this question. Asking a person to not fly and p…

> Regulation is the answer to this question. Regulation should almost never be the answer in my opinion, it should be an absolute last resort. Regulation requires government officials that both deeply understand the market today and where it will be in the future. They need to be able to define clear and relevant metrics, rules without loopholes, and do it while the large financial incentives of the industry are tryi…

> Regulation should almost never be the answer in my opinion, it should be an absolute last resort.

I disagree with your opinion, which is why I responded with a post disagreeing with it.

> Again you're putting words in my mouth that I never said.

No, I put words in my mouth:

> I see it as

It is my interpretation and I think you are trying to have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. You can't say something that means one thing and then proclaim that you disagree with that thing.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#378

Post by protastus »

panick21_ wrote: post #293
protastus wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, tech sucks all the oxygen out of the room (no pun intended). When so much top talent is locked up by big tech, who's left to design planes at Boeing, write software for GM, run for office?

This is nonsense in my opinion. SpaceX exists and did a lot of work with young engineers. The problem isn't the engineers but the management. There are plenty of smart and hard working people in the US. Its ridiculous to believe that GM is fundamentally unable to recruit software people. Tesla did it just fine, as a small company with less money. Its rather management that systematically for 30+ years has considered…

I think my thesis is non-controversial and entirely obvious. So I suspect we diverge on definitions rather than have a factual disagreement.

Tesla is big tech (today). SpaceX isn't only because it is niche, and hasn't gone public. Both are 20 years old, and have for the last two decades been the most exciting companies in their respective segments, by far. This allows them to compete very favorably.

GM is boring, slow and makes many public mistakes. GM filed for bankruptcy in 2009. It has to pay a significant premium to hire equivalent talent and offers significant career risk, especially to young employees.

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#379

Post by baq »

nvy wrote: post #142
bozhark wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m suspicious of this comment. Especially since this article was directly above this one on HN for awhile today: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boein...

I'm an aerospace engineer, this is my field. It makes no sense to call for heads to roll without even knowing the root cause. If this happens again on a different airframe, I'll change my tune in a hurry.

Hello from the future!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38917967

Re: Alaska Airlines 737 Max makes emergency landing due to depressurization

#380

Post by renegade-otter »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Lost a window and an unoccupied seat per https://old.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/18znz5p/as_1282_k... > According to FAA record posted online, the Boeing 737-9 MAX rolled off the assembly line just two months ago, receiving its certification in November 2023. Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38882358 (“HN: Boeing wants FAA to exempt MAX 7 from safety rules to get it in the air“)

The seat was unoccupied. The guy in the middle seat had his shirt torn off. Also cellphones got sucked out, and one iPhone survived in mint condition.

Wear. Your Seatbelts.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2024/01/alaska-airlines-flig...

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/01/iphone-survives-1600...

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