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United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

theaircurrent.com

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Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#121

Post by gruez »

intunderflow wrote: post #6

At what point do consumers en-masse refuse to fly on these aircraft, if ever? When there's a few more fatal crashes?

Statistically speaking it's not worth worrying about. In 2021 there were less than 0.001 deaths per 100M passenger miles. Assuming these aircraft are 10x more dangerous than the alternative, that works out to 0.01 deaths per 100M passenger miles, or 0.00000026 deaths NY to SF flight. For an average american aged 38.9 years[2] with 40 years of life left[3], that works out to a loss of life of 5.4 minutes. I don't think most americans would worry over this, especially compared to other far more deadly threats like obesity.

[1] https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics...

[2] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2023/populati...

[3] https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#122

Post by chriskanan »

neverartful wrote: post #26
t0mas88 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately consumers don't have much choice, the airline can change which type operates a flight at any time. However longer term if Boeing's reputation keeps getting worse that can motivate buying decisions by the airlines. That change will be a very slow one, because fleet changes cost a lot of money in training crews, changing maintenance etc. For example KLM is changing their short-haul fleet from the 737 NG t…

True, but some airlines probably don't have any in their fleet. If worried consumers find out they could opt to not fly on those airlines.

Delta doesn't have any currently, although they ordered a bunch of the MAX family that will be delivered from 2025 - 2029. It will probably be impossible to avoid them, long-term.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#123

Post by dendrite9 »

Syonyk wrote: post #20
napoleoncomplex wrote: post #7

On at least 5 airplanes? Of one airline? Are loose bolts a minor issue, or is it as insane as it reads?

No, it's as insane as it reads. It means people were careless and sloppy during assembly. Think of it like seeing "one cockroach in your kitchen." It's not one cockroach. You just haven't opened up the rest of the walls.

Well they left a ladder in the tail of a plane during assembly in the not distant past. It's not like just a couple screws or washers were left behind to rattle around.

An ex worked on a QA-type project related to production for them. It makes me wonder if some of the issues were more fundamental than that project could ever have addressed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/28/business/boeing-787-dream...

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#124

Post by hunterjrj »

psunavy03 wrote: post #104
fullshark wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would require a fatal air crash of an American flight with a major celebrity on board.

. . . and the US airline industry has still not had a fatal crash in just under 25 years.

Unfortunately there was one in the Buffalo area in 2009:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#125

Post by barryrandall »

blindriver wrote: post #101

Doesn’t this call into question the manufacturing of ALL 737 MAX’s including the 7 and 8 since they must use the same manufacturing process?

It calls into question Boeing's entire portfolio because it's all a product of the same management culture.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#126

Post by lupusreal »

lucisferre wrote: post #91
Scoundreller wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My beef is that torque specs are for factory assembly. If you’re using new parts, sure, but once they’re old/re-used parts with some corrosion due to dissimilar metals, age or salt belt, you’re flying blind and probably undertorquing if going by the book. Given the amount of (soft) aluminum on aircraft, (737 is 80% aluminum), it would be insane to not precisely consider torque. Steel on steel is more forgiving.

Why would the softness matter for torque, if there has been some shift or compression since original install the torque should still ensure the correct pressure between the fitting, no?

Aluminum has no fatigue limit, so you really need to do things by the book.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#127

Post by kube-system »

fullshark wrote: post #30
intunderflow wrote: post #6

At what point do consumers en-masse refuse to fly on these aircraft, if ever? When there's a few more fatal crashes?

I think it would require a fatal air crash of an American flight with a major celebrity on board.

There's a decent list of celebs who have died in aircraft accidents. The attention typically lasts for a single news cycle.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#129

Post by chippiewill »

blindriver wrote: post #101

Doesn’t this call into question the manufacturing of ALL 737 MAX’s including the 7 and 8 since they must use the same manufacturing process?

Only the max-9 has the door plug, the smaller airframes don't have that door, and the larger airframes always have the door fitted

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#130

Post by terminous »

Sparkyte wrote: post #53
tuckerpo wrote: post #10

It seems there's a sense of malaise falling over everything and everyone in the USA. People at large simply cannot be bothered to care about anything, including torque specs for freakin' AIRLINERS

Culture problem as we hire people of a generation who were not educated or engrained with responsibility they avoid doing the right thing and this happens.

Get this generationalist BS out of here. It isn't supported by the facts. Airline safety has improved with each generation. There were many more plane crashes in the 1970s-1980s when boomers were in their prime. Five times as many!
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