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What PWA Can Do Today

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Re: What PWA Can Do Today

#191

Post by MBCook »

ajross wrote: post #140
MBCook wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you can look things up but it would be nice to look at this evangelism site and tell at a glance that Bluetooth isn’t supported everywhere the way playing a sound is.

To clarify what you're actually trying to say: Access to the low level Bluetooth device API is not as pervasively supported as audio output is. Quite clearly you can play audio to a bluetooth device in a PWA everywhere. And that kind of ambiguity is why you need to be using a rigorous source like caniuse and not just looking at summary statements for this kind of information.

Right. Audio over BT just counts as audio, the BT permission means something mote like connect to and use arbitrary BT devices.

I didn’t actually mean to compare BT vs BT audio in my original post, I just picked an example every browser will let you do. I hadn’t considered the crossover until I saw your reply.

Re: What PWA Can Do Today

#192

Post by judah »

turtlebits wrote: post #138

I'm working on a minimal music player for Android that just plays from a directory on device. Can I do this with a PWA? I just tried the File System Acecss API -> Open directory but it did nothing.

I have a music player PWA published on Android[0]. It works pretty good, my users are happy (rated 4.5 stars), and I haven't encountered any significant issues with it.

For the file system access API, only the origin private file system is enabled on Android[1].

IMO, the file system access APIs are still a bit immature.

[0]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.messianicr...

[1]: https://caniuse.com/native-filesystem-api

Re: What PWA Can Do Today

#193

Post by judah »

rock_artist wrote: post #144

I really love how PWA goes. But one aspect for some use cases is monetizing. How can you “sell” PWA or have subscription for ad removal?

For in-app purchases of PWAs in app Stores, you can use the Digital Goods API[0]. It works for Google Play and Microsoft Store.

For non-free apps, one thing I've seen is app Stores launch the PWA with some flags indicating it was launched from the Store. If these flags are not present, the app is being launched via direct URL, in which case the app server can give a not authorized response.

[0]: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/android/trusted-web-activi...

Re: What PWA Can Do Today

#194

Post by palata »

bad_user wrote: post #105
palata wrote: post #91

PWAs to me sound like "we want everyone to use the same OS (in this case something like ChromeOS), because that's more productive for us". I get that Google pushes for PWAs because that's how they conquer the OS world. But why do individuals push for that? Because they don't know anything other than webtech and don't want to learn? Have a look at Kotlin and Swift guys, it's kinda cool!

The biggest reason, as I see it, is that the web is a free market, whereas on Android's and iOS's app stores you're beholden to Google's and Apple's taxes, restrictions and whims. The second reason is the resources available. Going web first means your app is instantly available everywhere, even if not perfect. We can learn Android and iOS development for sure, but how about both? And have you ever seen shops with th…

> is that the web is a free market

Controlled by Google with Chromium, right?

> The second reason is the resources available.

I guess that's the excuse, yes. But in my experience the native way is not necessarily more expensive. It's just faster to make a prototype in web, I suppose. And most apps end up being prototypes thrown into production nowadays.

So yeah: it's cheaper, not better, but that's enough to win.

Re: What PWA Can Do Today

#195

Post by usrusr »

CharlesW wrote: post #120
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Progressive enhancement, API detection, and polyfilling are all common strategies that can be used to mitigate almost all device differences. Keyword being "almost", and that in some cases if the platform doesn't support your feature, you're shit outta luck. By far the thing that prevented PWAs from bigger uptake earlier was Apple dragging their feet on push notifications support on iOS. There was simply no workaro…

> By far the thing that prevented PWAs from bigger uptake earlier was Apple dragging their feet on push notifications support on iOS. Is there any evidence that this moved the PWA needle at all, he said hopefully? I would've predicted no effect on PWA adoption. > …last I checked the "install to home screen" on iOS Safari was still a horrible user experience (the actions is hidden under the "share" menu, which makes n…

Companies that already have two copies of their app front-end team will certainly not jump at the first hunch that they might perhaps be substituted by a third line. It's a slow process. But five years from the watershed moment of Apple ending their web push boycott (announced 22, executed 23), I expect a noticeable trend. For now, it's probably just orgs that would start from zero with an app questioning the need for a pair of native apps who might pick PWA over faux-native (electron/tauri wrapping a web UI). And perhaps some who already did faux-native, keep their app-store presence but also offer a third variant of the same running unwrapped in regular browsers.

Re: What PWA Can Do Today

#196

Post by judah »

Andrex wrote: post #168
synergy20 wrote: post #159

the elephant in the room is the lack of support from Apple, by this alone, its apps store should be legally challenged, before that happens, it's hard to sell PWA, which is great on a tech standpoint.

It's rumored Apple may finally allow outside browser engines due to pressure from the EU (also behind the USB-C switch). https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/13/apple-mulls-opening-browser-e... I very much hope it's true.

It's not a rumor, it's reality: https://infrequently.org/2024/01/the-web-is-the-app-store/

> "First, browser engine choice should become a reality on iOS in the EU in 2024, thanks to the plain language of the DMA. Apple will, of course, attempt to delay the entry of competing browsers through as-yet-unknown strategies, but the clock is ticking. Once browsers can enable capable web apps with easier distribution, the logic of the app store loses a bit of its lustre."

Re: What PWA Can Do Today

#197

Post by ctoth »

wbharding wrote: post #173

Sure would be nice if Firefox desktop would join the browsers that support PWAs. We build an app that has been PWA-first, but it is unfortunate that this generally requires users to have a Chrome instance running. Would much rather point people to Firefox, and it seems like it would be to their advantage to give apps a reason to recommend FF, if they built a smoother PWA integration than Chrome.

Mozilla's removal of SSB support (single-site browser[0]) which is the key missing piece here is completely mystifying.

I reckon that CEO salary has to come from somewhere though.

[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/uwojh7/why_did_fir...

Re: What PWA Can Do Today

#198

Post by palata »

sccxy wrote: post #115
palata wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using Windows? I am happy that the people who contributed Linux/BSD/Android/iOS did not have your mentality, otherwise I would be forced to use Windows everywhere.

Yeah, only privileged white people can build apps. Web is free and people can build and release web apps they want.

> only privileged white people can build apps.

Android is free, isn't it? Most smartphones use Android.

Then writing Desktop apps is free, too.

Re: What PWA Can Do Today

#199

Post by palata »

kristiandupont wrote: post #136
palata wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What else besides PWAs promise to free everyone from app store rent and anticompetitive policies? I don't know... laws? > PWAs would also open the doors to new mobile OSs beyond Google or apple control. Or force everyone into ChromeOS once and for all.

>laws? Maybe. I am not impressed so far, though. >Or force everyone into ChromeOS once and for all. I don't see that happening on iOS.

Still you count on the law to force iOS to accept PWAs, right? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

Re: What PWA Can Do Today

#200

Post by usrusr »

jon-wood wrote: post #150
ChadNauseam wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android allows the site to prompt the user to add it to their home screen, which it can do at a time when it makes sense. e.g. the user orders something, then the "add to home screen" pop-up appears and the user can accept with one tap, which they're likely to want to do because they anticipate wanting to check their order status.

Sadly this is caught up in the usual conflict of interests. As someone building a PWA I would love a quick and easy method to pop up an install dialogue for the user. Unfortunately as a user of Safari on iOS the last thing I want is for every single website I interact with to be popping install dialogues, and you just know that's going to be as prolific as the current bombardment of requests to subscribe to mailing l…

The "natural" UI place for that kind of begging would not be a pop-up, but the head end of the URL bar, where the domain certificate validity is shown. Usually that's also the place where the UI for revoking permissions that are already granted is launched. Assuming the best I suspect that this is already the future plan of browser makers: on both browsers I usr (android chrome and FF on the desktop) hair the begging pop-up point there already, perhaps this is not only done as a hint to the place where the permission can be revoked, but also as training wheels for a less annoying future where the pop-up is replaced with some simple notification state in that place?
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