Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix • Hacker News Board

Re: Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix

#181

Post by burgerbrain » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 9:32 PM UTC

windsurfer wrote: post #178

sho_hn wrote: post #139

Even though Steam invites its own problems (it's ultimately a form of DRM, a closed platform, and a closed-source application), as a FOSS developer I can't help but feel excited about this prospect. I know many, many people in the 15-35 age bracket who are open to and curious about Linux, even tried it, but ultimately didn't stick with it because of the lack of high-end native games and because rebooting or setting u…

bonch, your account has been hellbanned. All your comments are dead. I'm replying here hoping you see it.

If I recall correctly, he's been told and didn't seem to care.

Re: Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix

#182

Post by jiggy2011 » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 9:45 PM UTC

vibrunazo wrote: post #162

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's to late now. Valve missed their chance. Gaming is moving away from desktop. In fact, while gaming is increasing extremely fast overall, desktop is actually setting decrease on revenue. This is strictly wrong. Desktop gaming is growing, not shrinking, has done so for the past 4 years, and is projected to do so for the next 4. http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Nvidia... Desktop gaming was…

You're confusing 2 different things. Native Desktop apps vs Browser apps. (don't blame you, I do a lot of game market research and it's really hard to tell which reports are talking about what) If you sum them both, the industry is growing. (which is what nvidia is showing in the link you posted). But the native desktop game market alone is decreasing: http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_Essential_Facts_2010.PD... W…

Native desktop/console could possibly be dropping possibly due to recession and also the fact that we haven't had any new consoles released for a while.

I find it difficult to believe that in the future everyone will want to play all of their games on a phone/tablet.

There are huge categories of popular games that really don't fit well to a touchscreen.

Re: Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix

#183

Post by jiggy2011 » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 10:00 PM UTC

SquareWheel wrote: post #126

idleloops wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As well as: * Poor web browser (not an issue now) * Poor flash support (better than it has been) * No Microsoft Office (partially surmountable) * Video and sound configuration issues (sound is still hit and miss for me) * Inconsistent desktop UIs and administration tools * Lack of simple point and click system control panel And that you couldn't easily find consumer hardware pre-installed with a Linux desktop (which…

More than anything else, I'd just say that doing any task in Linux is a battle. Once you understand the system and configure things to your liking it is a dream, but as a new user you'll be spending hours in config files and searching Google, and users don't want that. This is Hacker News. Most of us know our way around a terminal. But real users don't, any real users drive the market.

This is partly because the most popular distro (ubuntu) has some pretty stupid defaults.

For example:

Default install will not give you flash support or support for codecs like WMV.

Default fonts are enormous

If you have an Nvidia/ATI graphics card you will not get a proper driver unless you know how to specifically install it.

Re: Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix

#184

Post by jiggy2011 » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 10:07 PM UTC

burgerbrain wrote: post #181

windsurfer wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bonch, your account has been hellbanned. All your comments are dead. I'm replying here hoping you see it.

If I recall correctly, he's been told and didn't seem to care.

I'm curious, is there a way I can set HN to display hellbanned comments?

Re: Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix

#185

Post by lmkg » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 10:27 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #184

burgerbrain wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall correctly, he's been told and didn't seem to care.

I'm curious, is there a way I can set HN to display hellbanned comments?

In your account settings, the option is named "showdead."

Re: Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix

#186

Post by jiggy2011 » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 10:53 PM UTC

lmkg wrote: post #185

jiggy2011 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, is there a way I can set HN to display hellbanned comments?

In your account settings, the option is named "showdead."

Oh cool, thanks.

I never knew there was a feature in HN that immediately turned it into reddit!

Re: Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix

#187

Post by vibrunazo » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 10:54 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #182

vibrunazo wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing 2 different things. Native Desktop apps vs Browser apps. (don't blame you, I do a lot of game market research and it's really hard to tell which reports are talking about what) If you sum them both, the industry is growing. (which is what nvidia is showing in the link you posted). But the native desktop game market alone is decreasing: http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_Essential_Facts_2010.PD... W…

Native desktop/console could possibly be dropping possibly due to recession and also the fact that we haven't had any new consoles released for a while. I find it difficult to believe that in the future everyone will want to play all of their games on a phone/tablet. There are huge categories of popular games that really don't fit well to a touchscreen.

> There are huge categories of popular games that really don't fit well to a touchscreen.

Then why are you not selling bluetooth gamepads yet? :)

This presentation [1] that was just posted explains it better than I possibly could. Mobile is replacing console just like console replaced arcades. Which also had much better hardware and controlers, and games that didn't fit the console style. Until consoles' hardware evolved... and arcades died. Likewise, mobile hardware is evolving. There's nothing stopping you from building a android box with 10x the CPU power of an xbox, plug controllers in it, have instant access to many more games in the Play Store that all consoles together ever had. Then develop games with much better graphics than current AAA titles.

And I'm personally betting (literally) that both Apple and Android OEMs are already working on this.

[1] http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/when-the-consoles-die-wha...

Re: Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix

#188

Post by jiggy2011 » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 11:03 PM UTC

vibrunazo wrote: post #187

jiggy2011 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native desktop/console could possibly be dropping possibly due to recession and also the fact that we haven't had any new consoles released for a while. I find it difficult to believe that in the future everyone will want to play all of their games on a phone/tablet. There are huge categories of popular games that really don't fit well to a touchscreen.

> There are huge categories of popular games that really don't fit well to a touchscreen. Then why are you not selling bluetooth gamepads yet? :) This presentation [1] that was just posted explains it better than I possibly could. Mobile is replacing console just like console replaced arcades. Which also had much better hardware and controlers, and games that didn't fit the console style. Until consoles' hardware evo…

True, but at the point what you've just built is basically a console. In fact you may as well plug it into your HD TV too and you now have your "TV tablet" that you leave next to your TV (in the same way that you have a dedicated HTPC instead of plugging your laptop in every time). Then somebody else comes along and says "hey all of these people are buying tablets just to plug into their TV, I wonder if they would buy a tablet without a screen" and thus the whole cycle starts over.

I'm not sure that the console/arcade analogy holds, Arcade games had a bigger barrier to play. You had to physically move yourself to a place that contained arcade machines (whilst dodging teenage drugdealers) and stick money into the machine every time you died because the arcade owner had to cover the rent on this massive building (this meant the games were usually designed so that you died a lot). With a console or PC you can sit in the comfort of your own home and play for free (once you have bought the game).You can also save the game and resume from where you left off last time, a feature critical for longer, more complex games and missing from arcade machines.

The real issue here is whether the platform providers store (play store, app store, windows store etc) will do away with the need for Steam altogether and if it only had temporary value because MS did not have a compelling alternative at the time.

Re: Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix

#189

Post by rmATinnovafy » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 11:26 PM UTC

This seems like the kind of thing the Ubuntu software center was made for.

I'm glad gamers will have the option to play their games. Now, about those GPU drivers...

Re: Valve is developing Steam for Linux, says Michael Larabel of Phoronix

#190

Post by vibrunazo » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 11:59 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #188

vibrunazo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are huge categories of popular games that really don't fit well to a touchscreen. Then why are you not selling bluetooth gamepads yet? :) This presentation [1] that was just posted explains it better than I possibly could. Mobile is replacing console just like console replaced arcades. Which also had much better hardware and controlers, and games that didn't fit the console style. Until consoles' hardware evo…

True, but at the point what you've just built is basically a console. In fact you may as well plug it into your HD TV too and you now have your "TV tablet" that you leave next to your TV (in the same way that you have a dedicated HTPC instead of plugging your laptop in every time). Then somebody else comes along and says "hey all of these people are buying tablets just to plug into their TV, I wonder if they would bu…

I agree the evolution of mobile will be basically a console. In fact, I said in my original post that the next popular consoles will run iOS/Android. And these tablets without the screen already exist. They're called Google TV and Apple TV (tho Apple TV would still need app store). Put more power, a controller, a game friendly UI and you got a real console competitor. Expect that to happen, at most by 2013.

Mobile does have big advantages over console, just as these had over arcade. A) The ecosystem lock is huge. Having all your existing apps, games and settings, instantly transfer seamlessly to your living room is something current consoles cannot reproduce (yet, tho msft is working on it). B) they're mobile after all. Playing an AAA game on your living room is nice, but what about when you're out? You can bring your tablet with you.

I agree with you that the real issue for steam is whether current stores are gonna need them. Unfortunately for them, I don't think they got much leverage in this negotiation. They don't have any games that work on iOS, Android or WP. Even if they partner with MS (whose got a week ecosystem right now). The combination of both of them would still be weak compared to iOS and Android. I honestly don't know what they could do. They'd have to pull off something brilliant. But choosing to work on linux this late in the game, gives me a hint they might be out of brilliant ideas.