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Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

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Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#51

Post by rollcat »

bitshiftfaced wrote: post #23

Shareholders care more about net profit than revenue. Using revenue makes the number more clickbaity. Also, you claim this isn't a deterrent, but you don't explain why . How do we know that tech companies weren't just well-behaved last year? Or, should one week's revenue never ever be able to pay off a company's past year's fines, and we should always assume tech companies are more evil than that?

I have a simple and very fair solution to that problem: make each consecutive fine for a repeated offense grow exponentially. If you make an honest mistake (or even are just testing the waters to see what you can get away with), the fine should be bearable. But being able to treat fines as just cost of doing business will indeed lead to a world where nothing is ever wrong or immoral, as long as you keep making money.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#52

Post by fifteen1506 »

bko wrote: post #48
shanehoban wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the fines would impact profits in a significant way, the companies would just ensure they have no profit on paper going forward.

I didn't know companies can just ensure they have no profit on paper. Why don't they do that now and not pay corporate taxes? Why is it dependent on fines?

No clue on your specific question.

However it is a known practice. Most Hollywood studios do it. That's why actors which claimed a percentage of profits of the movie would get $0.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#53

Post by hef19898 »

kmlx wrote: post #38

from the article: > As of seven days and three hours into 2024, they had already earned enough revenue to pay it all off. revenue is not the same as profit. this is basic stuff. from the same article: > Still, revenue is a more accurate depiction of a company’s size and profitability. it seems like this is rookie hour. then we look at the author's previous posts: https://proton.me/blog/big-tech-ipef With new trade de…

The moment people fail to differentiate between revenue and profit, one can safely ignore the rest of the article.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#54

Post by nickysielicki »

It's so easy to tell when Europe is voting on a post versus the US. Fines against these companies are predominantly rent seeking. You should be extra suspicious when the fines are coming from countries where they don't have offices.

FTA:

> Big Tech companies can further water down the potential sting of these fines by delaying payment for years(new window). They’ve done this by filing appeals, counter-suing, or simply refusing to pay. Some notable examples include:

Sorry, but I give the companies the benefit of the doubt here: they have good legal teams and don't generally fight things when they can't win. Fighting these fines isn't evidence that big tech is evil and refuses to follow the low, it's evidence that these countries are rent seeking by charging them bogus fines, which their world-class legal teams (rightly) contest.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#55

Post by BirAdam »

bko wrote: post #44
hliyan wrote: post #2

Either the fines need to be high enough until there is a material impact to shareholders, or natural persons who make decisions within the corporation needs to be held accountable (not just the legal person), OR, we need to fundamentally rethink what a corporation's charter must necessarily include (in addition to shareholder returns).

Or, alternative explanation, the fines aren't meant to deter behavior but serve as a way of rent seeking, signaling by politicians and bureaucrats and capturing ever more regulatory authority by various groups

It also serves as deterrent for smaller companies, and as regulatory capture occurs pulls the ladder up behind the big tech companies.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#56

Post by jongjong »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #36
jongjong wrote: post #24

The concept of a corporation is fundamentally unjust. It doesn't make sense that there are entities which have more rights than people. If I do a crime, I go to jail. If a corporation does a crime, they only need to pay a small fine. Not to mention that they have many thousands of people working for them doing crimes on their behalf for which are never caught and never punished. Just the scale of a corporation, makes…

> If I do a crime, I go to jail. If a corporation does a crime, they only need to pay a small fine. Many corporate executives have gone to prison for crimes they committed while working. > Corporations can influence laws in ways that I can't. I can't even talk to a politician. You can talk to a politician if you bother to call or email their office. Stop being obtuse. > Corporations have far better access to governme…

> You can talk to a politician if you bother to call or email their office. Stop being obtuse.

Obviously you have more money than me. They don't answer my emails, ever. I tried.

> You want individuals to bid directly for government contracts?

There should be constructs to represent businesses which are not limited liability.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#57

Post by arghwhat »

bitshiftfaced wrote: post #23

Shareholders care more about net profit than revenue. Using revenue makes the number more clickbaity. Also, you claim this isn't a deterrent, but you don't explain why . How do we know that tech companies weren't just well-behaved last year? Or, should one week's revenue never ever be able to pay off a company's past year's fines, and we should always assume tech companies are more evil than that?

Profit is an easier number to manipulate than revenue through expenses and liability. E.g., by increasing expenses to executive salaries and by investing huge sums in growth projects or new strategies.

For large companies, particularly those where investors prioritize growth, cash flow is often more interesting than profit.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#58

Post by Chris2048 »

tokai wrote: post #40

The only way to tackle this is to put leadership in prison. If that is not possible give them the oligarch experience; frozen assets, interpol warrant, etc. It makes no sense that breaking the law gives milder consequences just as long as your crime is transnational and very extensive in scope.

Why not higher fines? % of profit that increases each time?

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#59

Post by hef19898 »

nickysielicki wrote: post #54

It's so easy to tell when Europe is voting on a post versus the US. Fines against these companies are predominantly rent seeking. You should be extra suspicious when the fines are coming from countries where they don't have offices. FTA: > Big Tech companies can further water down the potential sting of these fines by delaying payment for years(new window). They’ve done this by filing appeals, counter-suing, or simpl…

Thr EU is fining EU based companies as well. And all Big Tech companies have offices in the EU.

The way proper legal systems work, is both sides litigate a case if they see a chance of winning it, goes for both involved parties. As much as big tech isn't per-se evil for having to pay fines, the governments involved aren't rent seeking...

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