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Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

proton.me

31–40 of 163 posts

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#31

The fines should be measured in units of time, not % of revenue, or some fixed dollar number. All other measures can be gamed, except time. For example, Meta would think twice about violating privacy if they were suspended from doing business for a month, or their fine amounted to a month of revenue with definite start and end dates. We already do the same thing with people (taking away their freedom for lengths of t…

As a citizen I don’t want government taking away my ability to communicate with family because my government wants some access controls.

I’m all for punishing companies. An easier solution is to combine fines with criminal penalties on citizens who break the laws. Ie if you work for a company and spy on someone, you go to jail as if you didn’t work for the company.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#32

The fines should be measured in units of time, not % of revenue, or some fixed dollar number. All other measures can be gamed, except time. For example, Meta would think twice about violating privacy if they were suspended from doing business for a month, or their fine amounted to a month of revenue with definite start and end dates. We already do the same thing with people (taking away their freedom for lengths of t…

> The fines should be measured in units of time, not % of revenue

Why not just increase the percentage so it's no longer profitable to break laws?

If say Meta was found to violate users privacy and illegally gained a 5% extra net revenue because of it, fine them 10x of what they gained, so 50% of the revenue.

I'm fairly sure they'd start moving fast without breaking things if that was the case.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#33

Should this be measuring against profit, not revenue? Edit: "This" meaning the claim that they've made enough to pay back fines, not how those fines are decided.

If the fines would impact profits in a significant way, the companies would just ensure they have no profit on paper going forward.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#34
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you imagine adding additional fine to shareholders? Like a reverse dividend? I wonder what disasters or blesses this will cause

No. That would destroy the stock markets in an instant. The way it has always been is that with a classic stock, the only risk an investor has is the money they paid someone to acquire the stock. There exist other classes with actual post-buy liabilities, e.g. stock options , as one particularly unlucky poor sod discovered at the start of the 2020 plaguefest [1], but normally these are (supposed to be) heavily gated…

To be clear -- the stocks are not the potential liability.

You're talking about situations where people are borrowing shares and selling them, with the hope of buying the share back later to pay back the borrowed share. Obviously that's a bad scene if you borrow / sell the share and then it goes from $20 to $20,000,000,000.... Your liability in these scenarios is infinite, but it is also part of the trading system to manage those exploding liabilities.

If you buy a property, and it turns out that property is a former toxic waste dump, you own that liability from that asset. What you thought would make a wonderful daycare is now going to cost you millions to remediate.

If you buy into a partnership, and one of the other partners does a silly thing and now the partnership owes someone millions, you're on the hook for that.

If you buy a stock, your liability is the money you've invested in the stock, which is why stocks are such a wonderful innovation (as seen from a 1400's perspective where debts are paid back by all owners).

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#36

The concept of a corporation is fundamentally unjust. It doesn't make sense that there are entities which have more rights than people. If I do a crime, I go to jail. If a corporation does a crime, they only need to pay a small fine. Not to mention that they have many thousands of people working for them doing crimes on their behalf for which are never caught and never punished. Just the scale of a corporation, makes…

> If I do a crime, I go to jail. If a corporation does a crime, they only need to pay a small fine.

Many corporate executives have gone to prison for crimes they committed while working.

> Corporations can influence laws in ways that I can't. I can't even talk to a politician.

You can talk to a politician if you bother to call or email their office. Stop being obtuse.

> Corporations have far better access to government contracts and the tender process than regular citizens. There is subtle, but harmful corruption constantly taking place behind the scenes.

You want individuals to bid directly for government contracts?

> Not only that, but the people who work for corporations are, to some extent, shielded from the crimes that they commit on behalf of corporations as it limits their liability by design. It absorbs and neutralizes liability. Nobody ends up taking responsibility. The crimes keep getting more frequent; corporations keep finding people who are more and more desperate and willing to commit crimes on their behalf.

Opinion, not fact. Maybe you're complaining they should be held more accountable, which is valid. But working under a corporation can't prevent anything if the DOJ decides to go after the individual perpetrator.

Thanks for falling for the author's clickbait though..

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#37
post #6
post #2

Either the fines need to be high enough until there is a material impact to shareholders, or natural persons who make decisions within the corporation needs to be held accountable (not just the legal person), OR, we need to fundamentally rethink what a corporation's charter must necessarily include (in addition to shareholder returns).

Could you imagine adding additional fine to shareholders? Like a reverse dividend? I wonder what disasters or blesses this will cause

Fining shareholders would effectively force unlimited liability to shareholders, which comes with a bunch of negatives (ex: bigger shareholders would just own inside of an LLC wrapper).

Wouldn't fining more accomplish the same goal? If it was big enough, it would cause major drawdowns in the stock price, which would cause financial losses for the shareholders.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#38
from the article:

> As of seven days and three hours into 2024, they had already earned enough revenue to pay it all off.

revenue is not the same as profit. this is basic stuff.

from the same article:

> Still, revenue is a more accurate depiction of a company’s size and profitability.

it seems like this is rookie hour.

then we look at the author's previous posts:

https://proton.me/blog/big-tech-ipef With new trade deal, Big Tech wants to be above the law

https://proton.me/blog/big-tech-bigger-fines Why we need bigger fines for Big Tech

got it. there is an axe to grind.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#39

Shareholders care more about net profit than revenue. Using revenue makes the number more clickbaity. Also, you claim this isn't a deterrent, but you don't explain why . How do we know that tech companies weren't just well-behaved last year? Or, should one week's revenue never ever be able to pay off a company's past year's fines, and we should always assume tech companies are more evil than that?

They were fined for breaking laws and them making a profit out of the act is irrelevant and secondary(though its the main driver).

If profit is the only benchmark then companies can use some creative accounting practices to reduce their exposure.

Re: Big Tech has already made enough money in 2024 to pay all its 2023 fines

#40
The only way to tackle this is to put leadership in prison. If that is not possible give them the oligarch experience; frozen assets, interpol warrant, etc.

It makes no sense that breaking the law gives milder consequences just as long as your crime is transnational and very extensive in scope.

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