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The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu

71–80 of 152 posts

Re: The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

#71
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The police don't call you if they are trying to serve a warrant, they show up. But be aware that the converse isn't true: someone who shows up at your door claiming to be law enforcement with a warrant isn't necessarily legitimate. E.g.: https://madison.com/news/local/crime-courts/jack-mcquestion-...

I don't trust anyone to be a police officer unless there's another police officer present certifying that they are in fact a police officer, and another police officer present certifying that that person is a police officer, and so on, up to a piece of paper listing hundreds of "root" police officers around the world that was prepared in an unspecified way by an unknown programmer involved in making whichever browser…

If you ask to see their badge and they show you a metal one it's probably a scammer, most real cops these days carry the plastic ones you can get at a Halloween store because budget cuts. IANAL etc etc

Re: The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

#72
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The police don't call you if they are trying to serve a warrant, they show up. But be aware that the converse isn't true: someone who shows up at your door claiming to be law enforcement with a warrant isn't necessarily legitimate. E.g.: https://madison.com/news/local/crime-courts/jack-mcquestion-...

I don't trust anyone to be a police officer unless there's another police officer present certifying that they are in fact a police officer, and another police officer present certifying that that person is a police officer, and so on, up to a piece of paper listing hundreds of "root" police officers around the world that was prepared in an unspecified way by an unknown programmer involved in making whichever browser…

Hilbert, calm down!

Re: The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

#73

Shame and pride are such strong motivators. My wife was taken by a very elaborate and well-crafted scam in November. In retrospect, it all sounds ridiculous... but in the moment, with kids in tow, it was very convincing. It was so traumatizing that when it was over and she finally realized it was a scam, she was relieved! They had convinced her she was going to jail and that was terrifying. Losing the money was less…

A trick I started using was asking the scammer for a challenge code to prove they where who they said they were (from my bank). The scammer was dumbfounded and hung up.

I agree it is always better to just hang up and call the bank yourself but it was pretty humorous.

Re: The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

#74
post #57

Shame and pride are such strong motivators. My wife was taken by a very elaborate and well-crafted scam in November. In retrospect, it all sounds ridiculous... but in the moment, with kids in tow, it was very convincing. It was so traumatizing that when it was over and she finally realized it was a scam, she was relieved! They had convinced her she was going to jail and that was terrifying. Losing the money was less…

>The police don't call you if they are trying to serve a warrant, they show up. But be aware that the converse isn't true: someone who shows up at your door claiming to be law enforcement with a warrant isn't necessarily legitimate. E.g.: https://madison.com/news/local/crime-courts/jack-mcquestion-...

I really wish there was a certificate authority run by the government. In the past we didn't have the capacity to do a lot of these things but now we can make many improvements, even if incomplete.

Can we not have something like a CA but for, at minimum, officials? Or something like keybase for identity proofs? This seems quite invaluable. Couldn't this even be done within the phone, mail, and email systems? I don't think this should be for everyone, because we should have some anonymity existing, but at least for government officials? What's preventing us from having public/private keys that are verifiable by general citizens? Even if it was as bad as PGP used to be (before tools to make it easier developed) there would be at least some form of verification. But right now it's far too easy to spoof and honestly I don't even know how one would perform verification other than hanging up and calling back. But that doesn't solve your example.

Note: I am not a security expert.

Re: The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he was asked by tankie friends to keep quiet about the USSR's crimes because they were the best chance for Communism. I have a lot of empathy for the tankies of that era. It was clear that people like Stalin were truly evil, but it was also clear from centuries of evidence that capitalism was exploitative and needed upheaval. On PAPER, Communism sounds great. I do think people genuinely believed there were simply g…

Everything sounds great until you ask, what if someone wants to opt out?

Yeah, but that's not unique to communism. You can't really opt out of current capitalistic economic system either

Re: The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This scam is pretty active right now. My brother in law was called 2 days prior and they called my wife again 2 days later… Rough scam script: - - hello, is this XYZ? - this is Officer Z, do you agree to abide by Judge ABC’s orders? - we have been trying to reach you by mail about this case. It has to do with a minor. - the judge has issued a gag order, do not talk with anyone about this - look up the number from the…

Every step feels plausible to me, except the last. Sending crypto to a government agency? Not saying I wouldn't be taken in by this or other scams in the heat of the moment, but from my armchair position, that redlined my suspicion. EDIT: heart -> heat

That is the beauty of the scam… plausibility, isolation and sunk cost. They had my wife on the phone for 90 minutes! It was so exhausting and nerve wracking that by the time the crypto request comes, you are too drained to think straight.

It was quite traumatizing… I am very thankful the money (while significant) wasn’t make or break for us.

I am sure for lots of people it can mean missing some payment or something. My 8yo was worried we wouldn’t be able to pay the mortgage. (Thankfully not a concern)

Re: The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

#77
post #57

Shame and pride are such strong motivators. My wife was taken by a very elaborate and well-crafted scam in November. In retrospect, it all sounds ridiculous... but in the moment, with kids in tow, it was very convincing. It was so traumatizing that when it was over and she finally realized it was a scam, she was relieved! They had convinced her she was going to jail and that was terrifying. Losing the money was less…

>The police don't call you if they are trying to serve a warrant, they show up. But be aware that the converse isn't true: someone who shows up at your door claiming to be law enforcement with a warrant isn't necessarily legitimate. E.g.: https://madison.com/news/local/crime-courts/jack-mcquestion-...

I have absolutely gotten legitimate phone calls from a sheriff/marshal in the stats of texas to let me know I had two warrants out for my arrest (failure to pay wrong left turn ticket, failure to show up at court for said ticket).

I called him back at the published phone number for his division. He let me know he wasn't going to be bothered driving 45 minutes across the metro area to find me and arrest me, and if I just stopped by court and got it taken care of in next three months that would be great.

Re: The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

#78

Did anyone notice that the author talks about scams and cons, but when it actually comes to a list of examples the majority are actually about plagiarism? Which... I largely don't care about. I understand why it's super important for academics, but in my book it's not a con or scam. It's accurate information. If somebody is giving me accurate information, the fact that they don't have correct citations isn't really a…

>Which... I largely don't care about. I understand why it's super important for academics, but in my book it's not a con or scam. It's accurate information.

This is not correct on a few levels, at least in the context of science. At the most basic, you're engaging in circular reasoning. You're accepting it's "accurate information" as a truism when the point of science is to discover what is actually "accurate information" in the absence of any oracles. Someone who is plagiarizing doesn't actually know whether what they're plagiarizing is accurate or not, by definition they haven't done the work. They don't know how it all connects together, and not only might what they're copying be wrong, they're more likely to introduce errors of context and omit qualifiers.

Tying into that is the issue of meta-information as well. One of the core foundations of science and assessing whether information is accurate or not is replication. A second/third/fourth/etc researcher independently reaching even 100% identical results is itself new information each time, even if conclusion is the same. More independent replication raises the chance of signal and decreases the chance that it was noise, some unaccounted for variables unique to a given lab or researcher. Everyone makes mistakes, but even with zero mistakes low probability things can happen in any single given experiment/study/place. Diverse distributed replication is a basic way to help discover/dismiss that.

A plagiarist in research is therefore, at a bare minimum, always engaged in a con/scam: they're claiming they have independently produced a result, which then adds to the weight and other people will be more likely to depend on. They have not.

Of course, they've also conned/scammed whatever money/time/resources anyone else contributed to them with the expectation of independent work and thus at a minimum new replication information. They took that, and then didn't follow through. It's fraud. And there is opportunity cost there since those are a zero-sum game, the resources that went to funding a plagiarist could have instead gone to fund someone honest who could produce something with actual ROI as expected.

Re: The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

#79

Shame and pride are such strong motivators. My wife was taken by a very elaborate and well-crafted scam in November. In retrospect, it all sounds ridiculous... but in the moment, with kids in tow, it was very convincing. It was so traumatizing that when it was over and she finally realized it was a scam, she was relieved! They had convinced her she was going to jail and that was terrifying. Losing the money was less…

I’ve received so many of these scam calls from fake authorities that I used to just hang up (now I don’t answer calls ever). One time I didn’t hang up because something felt weird. Turned out it was legit and I owed a $20 traffic ticket from years ago. I’m pretty certain it wasn’t a scam, maybe it was.

I would guess any traffic ticket that was only $20 was a great number of years ago…

Re: The immediate victims of a con would rather act as if the con never happened

#80

> The immediate victims of the con would rather act as if the con never happened. Instead, they’re mad at the outsiders who showed them that they were being fooled. This is why getting cult members sane again is difficult, they would rather live in the denial of having been fooled and can go any length to reinforce that bias. Even killing family members or themselves. This is also the reaction C-suite holds as you de…

> This is also why if you want > to rise high in corporate you > want to be the one not > delivering bad news, ever.

FFS, the emperor’s new clothes keep getting nicer!

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