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Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

gerrymcgovern.com

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Re: Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

#21

Post by tombert »

metabagel wrote: post #16
tombert wrote: post #4

I got my iPhone stolen from me a few months ago in a sort of mugging. I say "sort of", because it wasn't really violent, I wasn't injured, but rather two teenagers (I'd say roughly 17-18) came up to me, one asked if he could call his mom, I tell him that I'll call her on speaker phone, I unlock my phone, then his friend grabs my phone, the first guy shoves me, and they run away. I didn't chase after them because I ha…

People occasionally posit how they would deal with situations were they to arise. For example, that they would have fought back if they were on one of the planes which was hijacked on 9/11. It’s really hard for anyone to say how they would handle themselves in a situation which they have not encountered before. As a side note, people who continually lecture other people are generally not great people to be around.

Yeah, I feel a bit bad for calling the guy a fucking moron; I'm sure I've spoken out of my ass about something I've never experienced in the past. I've never said that I'd fight back against the 9/11 terrorists, but I'm sure I've done judgy "If I were there..." things in the past.

Re: Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

#22

Post by ethanbond »

kamikaz1k wrote: post #17
ethanbond wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the correct response to that is to show kindness, obviously. The alternative is to degrade to a low-trust society.

Actually, it is not obvious, especially if you’re acting independently. Once there’s a critical mass of people in society that can’t operate in high trust, you’re basically waiting for the generous people to be fleeced. ~There was a cute simulation web app on HN 6 months ago…I can’t find it.~ Found it! https://ncase.me/trust/

I’ll repeat: the obvious solution to avoid this (you are describing a low-trust society) is to show kindness.

It is simply untrue that the US is already a low-trust society, so yes it is obviously the correct solution to continue to show kindness.

Re: Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

#23

Post by mickelsen »

tombert wrote: post #4

I got my iPhone stolen from me a few months ago in a sort of mugging. I say "sort of", because it wasn't really violent, I wasn't injured, but rather two teenagers (I'd say roughly 17-18) came up to me, one asked if he could call his mom, I tell him that I'll call her on speaker phone, I unlock my phone, then his friend grabs my phone, the first guy shoves me, and they run away. I didn't chase after them because I ha…

Nah man, you doubled down on justifying your pathological empathy to your friend, so it's well deserved that he doesn't talk to you anymore. You are all in for yet another round of lessons from the global south, as you continue to enable mass migration, and this time it's not just petty crime they're committing. I have zero empathy for the likes of you, and the way you defend your bleeding-heart ways: it isn't just by doing what's supposedly virtuous but also by pontificating. This is a prime example of the submissive, whiny millennial from a developed country (or a tier 2 one like where I live) who thinks they have the moral high ground.

Re: Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

#24

Post by mcint »

"[And no further.]" This musing couldn't be appreciated without (historically) grossly wasteful computing. It's marginal whether you could justify India's green revolution on the premise of the article.

Reminds me of KSR's pessimism in "Ministry for the Future".

I'm glad we got mobile phones and computers, to help us tabulate and appreciate this disparity, before we prevent further useless use of resources.

Re: Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

#25

Post by tombert »

mickelsen wrote: post #23
tombert wrote: post #4

I got my iPhone stolen from me a few months ago in a sort of mugging. I say "sort of", because it wasn't really violent, I wasn't injured, but rather two teenagers (I'd say roughly 17-18) came up to me, one asked if he could call his mom, I tell him that I'll call her on speaker phone, I unlock my phone, then his friend grabs my phone, the first guy shoves me, and they run away. I didn't chase after them because I ha…

Nah man, you doubled down on justifying your pathological empathy to your friend, so it's well deserved that he doesn't talk to you anymore. You are all in for yet another round of lessons from the global south, as you continue to enable mass migration, and this time it's not just petty crime they're committing. I have zero empathy for the likes of you, and the way you defend your bleeding-heart ways: it isn't just b…

I never disputed that I'm a whiny millennial from a developed country; that's objectively true, and easy to glean in about ten seconds of talking to me.

I don't really see how calling me a "whiny millennial" or having "zero empathy for the likes of me" disproves my point; I still don't think that having broad empathy for the plights of others is a weakness and I don't see how pointing to a conspiracy about the global south really disputes that.

Also, "pathological empathy"? Really? Because I was going to let someone use my phone (on speaker) to call their mom? Give me a break; if I had "pathological empathy" I wouldn't be a yuppie living in the United States buying items produced by dubious labor in China.

I just want to be a decent person, and follow the fairly typical "treat others how you want to be treated". If I were in a position where I needed to call my mom and I didn't have my phone, I would like to live in a world where people help me with that. I don't think it requires "pathological empathy" to want to try and just be a decent person. Yes, in hindsight I probably should have just pointed them to a public phone or a police station or something.

I don't think (and never claimed to) have a "moral highground", whatever the hell that means, I just get annoyed when people brag about how unempathetic they'd be in situations they've never been tested on.

Re: Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

#26

Post by tourmalinetaco »

ethanbond wrote: post #22
kamikaz1k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it is not obvious, especially if you’re acting independently. Once there’s a critical mass of people in society that can’t operate in high trust, you’re basically waiting for the generous people to be fleeced. ~There was a cute simulation web app on HN 6 months ago…I can’t find it.~ Found it! https://ncase.me/trust/

I’ll repeat: the obvious solution to avoid this (you are describing a low-trust society) is to show kindness. It is simply untrue that the US is already a low-trust society, so yes it is obviously the correct solution to continue to show kindness.

The obvious error to your “obvious” solution is that some areas are already low-trust, and thus without removing that low-trust culture/the low-trust individuals there is simply no possible way to change it. Manhattan has had a reputation of being low-trust for longer than I’ve been alive, and that only continues to prove itself. L.A., Detroit, Chicago, really any major city are all low-trust environments. This may not be the whole of the US geographically, however it certainly is from a population perspective.

Re: Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

#27

Post by 0wis »

blablablerg wrote: post #9
tombert wrote: post #4

I got my iPhone stolen from me a few months ago in a sort of mugging. I say "sort of", because it wasn't really violent, I wasn't injured, but rather two teenagers (I'd say roughly 17-18) came up to me, one asked if he could call his mom, I tell him that I'll call her on speaker phone, I unlock my phone, then his friend grabs my phone, the first guy shoves me, and they run away. I didn't chase after them because I ha…

(Too much) empathy can definitely be a weakness. It is situational however, in a safe and peaceful environment it is beneficial and helpful, in less fortunate environments it can make you a target.

According to game theory, you should have empathy but not too much. Its such a powerful theoretical finding for every aspect of life. I found it best explained in the Veritasium video on game theory [1] [1]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM&pp=ygUfZ2FtZSB0aGV...

Re: Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

#28

Post by 0wis »

I do not know why the post is flagged, but I am not surprised as I only see a weak link between the article and the title and it is definitely political. And I am surprised so few comments are about the content.

However, the subject is still interesting. We have a fairness problem with the carbon footprint of the wealthy but we have no good solutions for now.

I am sure technology can help, but polical and social work will be needed too.

Re: Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

#29

Post by ethanbond »

tourmalinetaco wrote: post #26
ethanbond wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll repeat: the obvious solution to avoid this (you are describing a low-trust society) is to show kindness. It is simply untrue that the US is already a low-trust society, so yes it is obviously the correct solution to continue to show kindness.

The obvious error to your “obvious” solution is that some areas are already low-trust, and thus without removing that low-trust culture/the low-trust individuals there is simply no possible way to change it. Manhattan has had a reputation of being low-trust for longer than I’ve been alive, and that only continues to prove itself. L.A., Detroit, Chicago, really any major city are all low-trust environments. This may n…

“Continues to prove itself”

Citation needed

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