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Show HN: I made an app that consolidated 18 apps (doc, sheet, form, site, chat…)

nino.app

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Re: Show HN: I made an app that consolidated 18 apps (doc, sheet, form, site, chat…)

#91
Ok, lots of thoughts. I’ve reviewed the website and started drafted this as a Nino Doc. Haven’t dug into the more complex functionality yet.

# Tactical Feedback

On iOS, my password manager doesn’t recognize the Nino app with the Nino.app domain, so autofill doesn’t work at login. Not a problem, just a little friction.

Breaking problem on iOS: I cannot type the letter “m”. It appears to trigger a keyboard shortcut that toggles a reorder paragraph block mode. I had to abandon Nino and finish this write up in Notes.

In iOS Nino Doc, it’s not obvious how to “Select All —> Copy”. Moving from Nino to Notes I had to copy each paragraph block individually.

Concur that it would be good to have some templates or something to orient on first app open. I tried “Notebook” first because I assumed it was like “Notepad”, a very light text editor. Seems to be more like a Jupyter notebook?

Maybe an easy way to address this would be to add a tag line for each document type. Just a couple words to orient folks beyond the name. Perhaps add a “compare to X” as well.

# Strategic Feedback

First, the “too many tools” problem is real. Lotus Notes was good. There is appetite for consolidation in some large enterprises.

It’s impossible to get a big organization to switch over to this directly. You need to target smallish teams (10s of people) that can make their own decisions.

Security is everything. Recommend you review Sandstorm’s capability security model. That was the most promising productivity revolution I’ve seen in a while. It failed in part because they expected other people to write applications to their security model. If you can deliver the fine grained security AND a broad swath of functionality, you have something really special.

End to end encryption is excellent. Let me bring my own keys.

Some more specifics on security:

Block level security would be a killer feature. Especially if it goes beyond RBAC to ABAC. In my world, you frequently want to share a document with someone who is only authorized to view part of it. Automatically redacting the parts they aren’t supposed to see would be amazing. Then allow those blocks to be reused, with the same security labels, in many different contexts and app paradigms?

Honestly it would be amazing and I could sell it.

Next thing on security is data sovereignty. Absolutely respect going single region GCP to start. However, self-hosting will be an immediate ask in my world. Several tiers of this, all of which you can absolutely up charge for.

First, single tenet instances. Give me assurance that when bugs show up, they won’t leak my data to other customers.

Second, enterprises will want to run it within their VPC/Tenet that they already use / trust / audit. The major cloud vendors have regions focused on different industries, you need to be able to run there without calling home to your central instance.

Third, direct self hosting. Especially for smaller teams with poor connectivity back to the cloud. Can I run this on a NUC out of a trailer to help coordinate disaster recovery efforts? Can I host it in a VM on dedicated hardware where I understand the cost, capacity and backup story? Google and Microsoft can’t do this, so you can differentiate. See Next Cloud for a good approach to this.

Finally, interoperability. You have many different app views into the core block abstraction, but there will always be other tools and databases in play. Make it super easy for those external things to read and write blocks. Don’t write the integrations - just expose the API.

Good luck!

Re: Show HN: I made an app that consolidated 18 apps (doc, sheet, form, site, chat…)

#92
post #58
post #28

As no one has asked so far, I’ll have to do it, how does this differentiate itself from Lotus Notes?

That was my exact thought. Sounds like a very similar idea. Would love to know what they are thinking would be the differentiator between Notes and their offering? Specifically the hat advantages they have that would lead them to think their offering would gain traction were as Notes has been on a long slow decline.

Maybe NOT using F5 to lock the user session?

Re: Show HN: I made an app that consolidated 18 apps (doc, sheet, form, site, chat…)

#93

This looks really neat! I'd be interested in giving it a try, but doing so would replace existing tools and workflow. As a user, I'm unwilling to do this is I can't both own my data and application hosting. If Nino doesn't pan out and the product gets shut down, how do I continue to access my now (trigger warning, words used to describe as I understand, not critique) tightly coupled proprietary data? Can I self host?…

One great solution for that would be the approach many advanced Markdown editors like Obsidian have: the documents remain usable. You might lose some benefits (the integration between documents in a graph-like structure) that are specific to the tool. Still, your work is preserved in a universal format that anyone can leverage.

Most elements of Nano have widely accepted standards, presumably easy to integrate, so that guarantee should be doable.

Re: Show HN: I made an app that consolidated 18 apps (doc, sheet, form, site, chat…)

#95
post #87
post #72

One of the most important features to get right for tools like this is collaborative editing. It's incredibly difficult to get this right (live preview, conflict resolution, history management, etc), especially given how the vast majority of users are non-technical folks (which aren't used to toolks like git). Could you expand a bit on how you intend to tackle this problem in Nino?

I actually think this hyper-granular realtime collaboration like in Google docs is slightly overrated. I think it’s ok to have more a git-like workflow where feedback and changes happen over cycles. As a programmer, I don’t give a shit about your working directory. I do care, however, about your commits :) All I’m saying is this CRDT craze isn’t always necessary or even appropriate for many products. It adds a lot of…

> I actually think this hyper-granular realtime collaboration like in Google docs is slightly overrated.

Disagree, with the caveat that I understand how it can feel overrated if you're not using the new ways of remote collaboration that it enables.

The fully-live remote-collaboration UX in tools like Google Docs [1] and Figma is magical because you can get on a video call with people [2] and co-create, in the moment, without having to fumble with all the nonsense of figuring out who's "driving" and who's "navigating."

Since you're all looking at and editing the same doc, everyone can arrange their windows to have a line of faces along the side and the doc in the center. It's actually better than in-person collaboration. There's no haggling over who's got the whiteboard marker, no one sneezing on everyone else, no crowding around to make sure everyone can see the board...

All the extra nonsense drops away, and you get to be just a group of people making something together.

[1]: Notably, Google Sheets uses a much more ham-handed idea of "realtime." A cell appears "locked" while someone else is editing it, and you don't see their work until they hit Enter. So you end up having to sit there like a buffoon while they type, their work invisible to you, and that friction destroys the magic of live collaboration.

[2]: If you don't do much remote work/collaboration with others around the world, then none of this matters — and it's easy to miss the world of possibilities that this feature unlocks.

Re: Show HN: I made an app that consolidated 18 apps (doc, sheet, form, site, chat…)

#96
post #87
post #72

One of the most important features to get right for tools like this is collaborative editing. It's incredibly difficult to get this right (live preview, conflict resolution, history management, etc), especially given how the vast majority of users are non-technical folks (which aren't used to toolks like git). Could you expand a bit on how you intend to tackle this problem in Nino?

I actually think this hyper-granular realtime collaboration like in Google docs is slightly overrated. I think it’s ok to have more a git-like workflow where feedback and changes happen over cycles. As a programmer, I don’t give a shit about your working directory. I do care, however, about your commits :) All I’m saying is this CRDT craze isn’t always necessary or even appropriate for many products. It adds a lot of…

Has Nino integrated Git into their tools? Editing lines of code over a GitHub diff window makes sense, but I’m not sure how that would work in, say, a spreadsheet: I don’t know if adding a line =21%*G17 below G17 is a good idea; I’d much rather have the changes in the context of a sheet and understand that it’s computing the VAT on top of the total cost.

Re: Show HN: I made an app that consolidated 18 apps (doc, sheet, form, site, chat…)

#97
So are you competing with 18 different products at the same time? Or is this just a glorified note taking & publishing app?

Either way I am getting strong https://zombo.com/ vibes from the description here and your landing page.

Instead of a clear problem statement and user use cases, you have this word salad of “consolidation” (of what?), “superapp” (that does what?), “unmatched privacy” (to do privately what?) and “offline mode” (I still have no idea what I can do with the app, but apparently I can do this something offline?).

That said, I am double surprised with all the praise comments here on HN. Can someone explain in one sentence what this app is supposed to do?

Re: Show HN: I made an app that consolidated 18 apps (doc, sheet, form, site, chat…)

#98

Honest and genuine feedback. I am concerned that you may be working on something that does not have a market in its present form, or possibly ever. I am worried as to how much of your life / time / money you might be pouring into this. It is difficult for me to be categorical about this, as for all I know it's a tiny side venture and you're not bothered about adoption. But, based on the marketing copy / launch, previ…

I appreciate this feedback. Thanks for writing it out. You have some valid points here and I'll think about them going forward.

You mentioned you were in a similar place to this, I'm curious to hear about your experience and the specific decisions you made back then, if you're comfortable sharing.

Re: Show HN: I made an app that consolidated 18 apps (doc, sheet, form, site, chat…)

#99

So are you competing with 18 different products at the same time? Or is this just a glorified note taking & publishing app? Either way I am getting strong https://zombo.com/ vibes from the description here and your landing page. Instead of a clear problem statement and user use cases, you have this word salad of “consolidation” (of what?), “superapp” (that does what?), “unmatched privacy” (to do privately what?) and…

"Privately consolidate your multi-app documents offline."

Like a desktop folder!

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