Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
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Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
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Re: Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
#2This is something I wondered about the idea of life beginning in the oceans and spreading to dry land.
If approximately 70 percent of the total number of microbes on the planet live underground today (number I googled) wouldn't it make more sense that life began underground and slowly spread to the surface? Is this a theory anywhere?
Re: Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
#3This is something I wondered about the idea of life beginning in the oceans and spreading to dry land. If approximately 70 percent of the total number of microbes on the planet live underground today (number I googled) wouldn't it make more sense that life began underground and slowly spread to the surface? Is this a theory anywhere?
I favor the idea that a planet with a moon in a slightly eccentric orbit (earth) you have oceans washing minerals over every grain of sand on every beach, depositing then washing away different concentrations of everything, wetting and drying and applying sunlight and shade, warming and cooling. A billion billion petri dishes over a billion years. Eventually bingo! organic molecules then life.
Re: Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
#4This is something I wondered about the idea of life beginning in the oceans and spreading to dry land. If approximately 70 percent of the total number of microbes on the planet live underground today (number I googled) wouldn't it make more sense that life began underground and slowly spread to the surface? Is this a theory anywhere?
It's an interesting suggestion but I think given what we know of life it's unlikely. I guess (obviously this is all speculation - none of us were there!) the origin of life can sort of be thought of as going from chemistry/geochemistry to biochemistry. And purely from a rate of reactions perspective, in a nice solvent like water that's likely to be more conducive to the origin of life than deep underground (in solids/highly viscous liquid at best).
Then there's also flux - do you have temporal/spatial variation in your various chemical constituents that might give rise to potential gradients (as we find in life - chemiosmosis in mitochondria for an obvious example). These are very prevalent at the sort of Lost City hydrothermal vents, where you have a very nice solvent coming into contact with a large mineral flux, with large energetic and chemical gradients. Again, less likely to be found underground.
If you're interested in this kind of thing I'd heartily recommend Nick Lane's book 'The Vital Question' or 'Transformer'. He tends to frame the issue not so much as just having the chemicals available (we find these on asteroids/meteorites!) but in having the energetic flux to get life started. Sort of akin I guess to how the components of a lightbulb don't do anything until you add an electron flux.
Re: Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
#5This is something I wondered about the idea of life beginning in the oceans and spreading to dry land. If approximately 70 percent of the total number of microbes on the planet live underground today (number I googled) wouldn't it make more sense that life began underground and slowly spread to the surface? Is this a theory anywhere?
Yes this is definitely a theory already. The volcanic vents under the ocean particularly seem promising. I'm nowhere near qualified to even try to explain it without making certain errors, so I don't want to even try, rather I'll recommend someone who is qualified (and good at teaching).
If you're interested in this stuff, I can highly recommend Robert M. Hazen. He has an amazing Great Course called "The Origin and Evolution of Earth: From the Big Bang to the Future of Human Existence" that covers stuff in depth. There's a shorter one called "Origins of Life" as well but I haven't listened to that. My impression is that it's an abridged version of the former.
Hazen also wrote a book called "The Story of Earth: The First 4.5 Billion Years, from Stardust to Living Planet" which covers the same material as the course (but in book form, obviously) and is really good. I liked the lecture-style of the course better personally, but they're both excellent resources if you're interested in this stuff.
My only regret is that they're about 10 years old at this point. If anyone knows what has changed in the last decade in the field, I'd be fascinated to know.
Re: Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
#6This is something I wondered about the idea of life beginning in the oceans and spreading to dry land. If approximately 70 percent of the total number of microbes on the planet live underground today (number I googled) wouldn't it make more sense that life began underground and slowly spread to the surface? Is this a theory anywhere?
Yes this is definitely a theory already. The volcanic vents under the ocean particularly seem promising. I'm nowhere near qualified to even try to explain it without making certain errors, so I don't want to even try, rather I'll recommend someone who is qualified (and good at teaching). If you're interested in this stuff, I can highly recommend Robert M. Hazen. He has an amazing Great Course called "The Origin and E…
Came here to post the same thing, The Story of Earth is excellent!
Re: Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
#7This is something I wondered about the idea of life beginning in the oceans and spreading to dry land. If approximately 70 percent of the total number of microbes on the planet live underground today (number I googled) wouldn't it make more sense that life began underground and slowly spread to the surface? Is this a theory anywhere?
Yes this is definitely a theory already. The volcanic vents under the ocean particularly seem promising. I'm nowhere near qualified to even try to explain it without making certain errors, so I don't want to even try, rather I'll recommend someone who is qualified (and good at teaching). If you're interested in this stuff, I can highly recommend Robert M. Hazen. He has an amazing Great Course called "The Origin and E…
Oh thanks! I have an Audible subscription so just spent a credit on the Hazen great course.
Mind you, I just started the Bach and the High Baroque so it might be a fair way into 2024 before I get to it. Maybe I can interleave them...
Re: Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
#8This is something I wondered about the idea of life beginning in the oceans and spreading to dry land. If approximately 70 percent of the total number of microbes on the planet live underground today (number I googled) wouldn't it make more sense that life began underground and slowly spread to the surface? Is this a theory anywhere?
It's an interesting suggestion but I think given what we know of life it's unlikely. I guess (obviously this is all speculation - none of us were there!) the origin of life can sort of be thought of as going from chemistry/geochemistry to biochemistry. And purely from a rate of reactions perspective, in a nice solvent like water that's likely to be more conducive to the origin of life than deep underground (in solids…
I bought "The Vital Question" last year, but haven't read it yet. I started "Oxygen" by the same author though and found it a real slog. It felt like it occupied a hard position, assuming a fair amount of relevant scientific background in the reader, and wasn't really a book meant for general consumption. It's definitely possible I just wasn't in the right mental state for it.
Did you find his books to be like that? Have you read Oxygen by chance and good compare/contrast them?
Re: Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes this is definitely a theory already. The volcanic vents under the ocean particularly seem promising. I'm nowhere near qualified to even try to explain it without making certain errors, so I don't want to even try, rather I'll recommend someone who is qualified (and good at teaching). If you're interested in this stuff, I can highly recommend Robert M. Hazen. He has an amazing Great Course called "The Origin and E…
Oh thanks! I have an Audible subscription so just spent a credit on the Hazen great course. Mind you, I just started the Bach and the High Baroque so it might be a fair way into 2024 before I get to it. Maybe I can interleave them...
Nice! I wouldn't worry too much. Once you start Hazen's course it will be impossible for you to stop :-D
That Bach course does seem quite interesting though, I'll check it out!
Re: Deep beneath earth's surface, clues to life's origins
#10Very cool research.
On the topic of hydrogen deep underground: I'm not an expert, just a fascinated amateur, but I've been fascinated by the recent discovery that there is enormous amounts of hydrogen below the earth. In fact, this article mentions hydrogen forming by serpentinization, and says that the researchers were shocked to find so much hydrogen. Recent research indicates that hydrogen may exist deep in the earth from processes other than serpentinization as well. There are now a handful of companies working to extract this natural hydrogen to use as a source of green energy. Exciting stuff.
This is an excellent research overview on the topic of "natural" geologic hydrogen https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00128...
I've also compiled some of my own notes on that paper here which provide some summaries on the multiple fascinating sub-topics. (E.G. hydrogen may be a driver of earthquakes! And we may be able to use hydrogen samples to predict earthquakes! Some predict that there may be even more biomass under the earth driven by sources like hydrogen and methane than there is above ground!) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pnW4HRq6E2up0DhIoxjCyGS6...