How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals • Hacker News Board

Re: How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals

#41

Post by seehafer » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 5:50 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #37

I can tell you from firsthand experience (as an investor) that the gist of this article is 100% correct: there are significant barriers to bringing a new medical device to market that have nothing to do with the merits of the product or the supply chain, but are quite simply pure protectionism for the established players. If anyone wants details, contact me privately.

As a product guy who works in medical device startups, I can reinforce this statement. Even if you find a way to exit the supply game by developing something that doctors have some choice over because they believe it has an impact on patient safety/outcomes, you still run into many of the issues detailed in the article. Here's just one: if you develop something that is truly revolutionary, you'll play hell trying to get paid for it, because the payers (private insurance and Medicare for the most part) only pay out for certain codes. It takes years to get a new code.

Re: How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals

#42

Post by digitalengineer » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 5:54 PM UTC

Reminds me of something: "Hacking Human Waste" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3456484

Two guys found (and patented) a way to get rid of very expensive human (hospital) waste. Working product in a few hospitals and everything, but they're looking for a way to scale up (they are great hackers but suck at finding an investor). Any tips?

Re: How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals

#43

Post by kposehn » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 5:55 PM UTC

seehafer wrote: post #38

kposehn wrote: post #14

I'm glad that our startup isn't dealing with medical devices, only with software. Still, I've been working with some medical device makers and it is a wild and crazy world they work in. The whole GPO system is clearly broken, but I've met some people - at device makers no less - that are passionate about ending it. We're doing our part to help that along.

Can you be more specific about what you're doing? I'm in medical device and I would love to see software startups help untangle the mess that is healthcare reimbursement and purchasing.

Email me - keith [aaaat] appzorz [dooot] com

I can't really be super specific yet publicly, but we may be able to talk further.

Re: How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals

#44

Post by excuse-me » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 5:57 PM UTC

jmvoodoo wrote: post #6

Someone needs to bring BYOD to the medical industry ;)

The simple solution is to make all the drugs that a hospital uses illegal.

Then overnight pure capitalism would create an efficient market to import and distribute them. When it's cheaper to buy heroin on the street than an aspirin in a hospital you know that the market is screwed up somewhere

Re: How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals

#45

Post by kposehn » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 5:59 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #40

As an entrepreneur I have dedicated most of the last 25 years to doing hardware (read: manufacturing) ventures. Manufacturing in the US is hard, if not impossible, save cases where the ecosystem or nature of the market can support it. Problems one could face include: ip (patents) mine field, government regulations, liability issues, lack of localized supply chains, high labor costs, high insurance costs, high taxes a…

Hah!

Very well put in general. We're avoiding the device angle as well, due to the same things you've mentioned.

Re: How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals

#46

Post by mclin » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 6:01 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #10

Interesting bit from the end of the article: "This isn’t just bad news for Shaw. Because his company is in the red, he has been unable to pull together the financing he needs to expand his factory in Little Elm. So he has partnered with Chinese companies, which put up money to build assembly lines in China in return for permission to produce his syringes for the Chinese market. When his patents do run out, the Chines…

I'm surprised these companies didn't give up and start selling in other countries, like Canada or the UK, to begin with.

Re: How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals

#47

Post by tyree732 » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 6:07 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #11

When I think of the federal government 'fixing' health care, this is the sort of thing I think they can fix. Not single payer, not mandatory coverage, just good enforcement of anti-competitive practices, ways to enable innovation with patient consent Etc.

Are you so sure about that? excuse-me's comment, right above yours in my view, talks about how the government has anti-competitive arrangements with big military contractors. How would the situation be different with healthcare?

Re: How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals

#48

Post by narrator » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 6:08 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #40

As an entrepreneur I have dedicated most of the last 25 years to doing hardware (read: manufacturing) ventures. Manufacturing in the US is hard, if not impossible, save cases where the ecosystem or nature of the market can support it. Problems one could face include: ip (patents) mine field, government regulations, liability issues, lack of localized supply chains, high labor costs, high insurance costs, high taxes a…

It's not just medical devices. Monks trying to enter the casket making business have run into licensing issues too.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/article_44747e48-649e-...

Re: How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals

#49

Post by saturdaysaint » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 6:08 PM UTC

God I hate the healthcare industry.

This was on my mind this morning because my girlfriend isn't rich and relies on Lunesta to sleep (I'll leave the fact that her doctor is advising her to take this indefinitely for another day). It's extortionately priced - something like $6 a pill - enough to gouge insurance companies thoroughly and enough to wreck havoc on the finances of someone that's not rich and lacks insurance.

It turns out, this is actually the most profitable drug in the world. Yet they can't even sell it in the EU because it's a modest derivative of a (generic) drug that's been around since 1989.

It's disturbing that this is where the patent game ends - with power-brokering and lawyering determining who gets the wealth and power.

Re: How the medical supply industry blocks device startups from selling to hospitals

#50

Post by raganwald » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 6:14 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #27

tomp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm doubtful that a Kaiser spokesman would fabricate these problems, Why?

Because that's defamation.

This is a kind of Ad Hominem Circumstantial, turned inside-out. Sometimes we slam someone’s statement by pointing out their self-interest. This is supporting their statement by pointing out their self-interest, but it has essentially the same form.

Either way, it is not a direct argument with the statement.