A better idea would be to simplify the tax code so that you don't need complex software to calculate taxes. Maybe even simplify it so much, and make it automatic, so that most people don't have to file tax returns, which is how it works in the UK [1].
IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system
231–240 of 338 posts
Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
>that all inefficiency is caused by governments Forget about the evidence of other countries (which is completely valid), I just hate the argument that government inherently because it's government is inefficient and will never be effective In the US half the people in charge of the government hate it and want it to fail. Of course it's going to be bloated, inefficient, and costly. It's being sabotaged from the top.…
> I just hate the argument that government inherently because it's government is inefficient and will never be effective The more general argument is that monopolies are inefficient, and most instances of government programs are monopolies. > In the US half the people in charge of the government hate it and want it to fail. This is uncharitable. It's more accurate to say that they expect it to fail and hate governmen…
> The more general argument is that monopolies are inefficient, and most instances of government programs are monopolies.
Even more general, markets where it is hard for new competitors to enter are inefficient. It's perfectly possible for a market with 10 or 20 competitors to stop competing for mutual benefit. I'd even argue a monopoly (a single dominant company) is fine, so long as it's easy for competitors to enter the market.
Consider the WW1 Christmas truce and other fraternizations. If the same actors are together long enough, they'll act for mutual ease. That was a good thing in WW1, but it's not a good thing when companies stop competing in a capitalist society.
Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system
#233Just one thing to add… The “IRS will functionally increase taxes” argument is a distraction and I doubt anyone here takes it seriously. But the argument matters because it has given Congress political cover to let Intuit keep leeching off the system, so a response is in order. Congress should require the IRS to give every person an auditable receipt of every tax they paid in a standard format. Then, truly public-mind…
I don't think it's really a distraction. It seems illogical for the government to not have a free, easy way for the taxpayer to remit their taxes to the government (or submit the paperwork that should generate a return from that government). But at the same time I think it's fine to be skeptical that you should trust the government to be honest in showing you what amount of taxes you actually owe given how complicate…
> Is the free-filing system designed to maximize your return?
The solution to this is for the government to publish the source code in the public domain. Then anyone who can do better can fork it and sell it, which will make that market more competitive when it's cheaper to enter because the government has already done 80% of the work, but there will only be a market for this if the government isn't maximizing your return. "Better return than the free system or your money back" would be a great way to get customers, and they'd be viable with fewer customers when they're only paying the incremental cost of doing what the government failed to.
And then the government system would be embarrassed if private forks could frequently beat them, which improves their incentives.
Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In one possible scenario included in the agency’s report to Congress, the I.R.S. could fill out tax returns with information it already has, like data from W-2 wage statements. For the pilot, however, participants will have to enter their own financial information, the I.R.S. said.
So in its initial form it is indeed a complete waste of tax payers money. Shocking.
> So in its initial form it is indeed a complete waste of tax payers money.
Certainly no worse than the decades of fees taxpayers have been sending to Intuit and co.
Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
>that all inefficiency is caused by governments Forget about the evidence of other countries (which is completely valid), I just hate the argument that government inherently because it's government is inefficient and will never be effective In the US half the people in charge of the government hate it and want it to fail. Of course it's going to be bloated, inefficient, and costly. It's being sabotaged from the top.…
And that's why our west coast cities, which are not run by the half that hates government, are shining beacons of just how effective and successful governments can be.
There's this idea that west coast cities are shitholes, and honestly it's BS. I live in the Seattle suburbs and I'm downtown regularly, and the only obvious problem is the public disorder visited on us all by Martin v. Boise. It's pretty clear from housing prices that wealthy people are still happy living in Seattle: the market is speaking loudly. Don't get me wrong—I live in the suburbs for a reason, you couldn't pay me enough to live in Seattle—but as cities go, it's fine. Republicans who hate big disorderly cities like I do should just enjoy their suburban parking lots and breathing room, and quit pretending city chaos equals Democratic mismanagement.
Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
>that all inefficiency is caused by governments Forget about the evidence of other countries (which is completely valid), I just hate the argument that government inherently because it's government is inefficient and will never be effective In the US half the people in charge of the government hate it and want it to fail. Of course it's going to be bloated, inefficient, and costly. It's being sabotaged from the top.…
And that's why our west coast cities, which are not run by the half that hates government, are shining beacons of just how effective and successful governments can be.
I'll bite. In what ways are non west coast cities is more efficient than west coast cities?
Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system
#237Just one thing to add… The “IRS will functionally increase taxes” argument is a distraction and I doubt anyone here takes it seriously. But the argument matters because it has given Congress political cover to let Intuit keep leeching off the system, so a response is in order. Congress should require the IRS to give every person an auditable receipt of every tax they paid in a standard format. Then, truly public-mind…
I don't think it's really a distraction. It seems illogical for the government to not have a free, easy way for the taxpayer to remit their taxes to the government (or submit the paperwork that should generate a return from that government). But at the same time I think it's fine to be skeptical that you should trust the government to be honest in showing you what amount of taxes you actually owe given how complicate…
Do you consider it an incentive problem for cloud providers to send you a bill instead of asking you to submit what you believe you should owe? We have societally solved these problems my making them auditable. People don’t necessarily trust the bill, and have means of disputing it. If you think the government’s tool is overcharging, you are welcome to file your own taxes and deal with the possibility of getting audited.
Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system
#238The agency's plans have met resistance from tax preparation companies??? Wow that's shocking.
Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
patio11 has a huge and well known bias here, which is that he wants to claim, not necessarily with evidence, that all inefficiency is caused by governments and not by the private sector. A comparison of tax filing in the United States with other countries, including those where governments are much bigger and more interventionist, leads to a different conclusion.
>that all inefficiency is caused by governments Forget about the evidence of other countries (which is completely valid), I just hate the argument that government inherently because it's government is inefficient and will never be effective In the US half the people in charge of the government hate it and want it to fail. Of course it's going to be bloated, inefficient, and costly. It's being sabotaged from the top.…
> I just hate the argument that government inherently because it's government is inefficient and will never be effective
The big incentive problem here is that democracies reduce the power held by private individuals. So (primarily wealthy, powerful) private individuals have an incentive to market the idea that government is inefficient to reduce the impact of decisions made by democratic choice.
This same conflict occurs throughout history. For example, the Magna Carta was a major concession of the power of the English King to lower nobility. There are always going to be people who dream of running their own fiefdom and see democracy as at best a nuisance and at worst an active impediment.
Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system
#240> A spokeswoman for Intuit, Tania Mercado, criticized the direct file project as a “half-baked solution” and a waste of taxpayer money. “The direct file scheme is a solution in search of a problem,” she said. Wow, I thought that Intuit would have gone for a little more subtlety.
Rest in piss Intuit