Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 884 posts

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#691

Post by sio8ohPi »

mrandish wrote: post #35
intunderflow wrote: post #2

At least Airbus seems to be competent in building safe aircraft. I would not be surprised though if Boeing's sales drop if the US government brings in tariffs or etc to try and force companies to buy their flying coffins.

> At least Airbus seems to be competent in building safe aircraft. Prior to new models released in the last ~10yrs-ish, Boeing made the safest planes in the sky (as measured by passenger miles). Many of those planes are still flying and still doing great. For me the interesting question is what changed in Boeing's design, testing and/or manufacturing processes which is apparently resulting in worse safety performance…

Back when their planes blew up on their own (TWA 800, Philippine 143, Thai Airways 114), and when the rudders liked to jam themselves to full-deflection (UA 525, USAir 427)?

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#692

Post by nyokodo »

nielsbot wrote: post #656
ekianjo wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capitalism just isnt set up to punish the Bourgeois. Its not a problem of capitalism its a problem of a judicial system having no balls to put execs in prison.

The problem is called regulatory capture. And it’s by our campaign finance system. And that’s a result of unhindered capital accumulation by a minority.

> regulatory capture

You don’t need a campaign finance problem to get regulatory capture. Only industry insiders have the context to regulate industries. They come from industry, they know and are known by all the players, and back to industry is where they want options to return. They see the world in terms other insiders do and they don’t want to burn any bridges. This is a recipe for industry getting what they want in most cases.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#693

Post by inferiorhuman »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #665
coddingtonbear wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I can sympathize with the story, this particular aircraft had been in their hands just a couple months. Its first commercial flight was just a couple weeks back. Maintenance isn't the issue here, clearly.

Fixing known problems as you learn of them is maintenance is it not? That's just as important as changing out the lubricants and checking that the working parts are working.

When you hear hoofbeats think horses, not zebras. A pressurization fault on the ground where the plane is not pressurized almost certainly doesn't hint at problems with a permanently installed door plug.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#694

Post by vkou »

WalterBright wrote: post #579
vkou wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any kind of alternative that could be found, or have we reached the end of history, with our only two options being 2023 capitalism versus 1960s Soviet state capitalism?

Airplanes are designed by people, and are enormously complex. No system involving humans will be free of mistakes.

I'm less concerned about mistakes as I am about systemic failures and bad incentives.

Boeing seems to have created a political and regulatory environment for itself where its better for it to design and build planes poorly, than it is for it to design and build planes well.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#695

Post by callalex »

pi-e-sigma wrote: post #622
mattmaroon wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, no we didn’t. We spent less as a percentage of GDP. But total spending barely shrank by the late 90’s. We hadn’t even started to shift spending away from piloted jets by then either. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/mili...

Nowadays the reduction of the increase of military spending is called 'budget cuts'. Not the actual budget reduction, just increasing the budget slower than in previous budget somehow is a 'cut'. That's the reality we live in now.

But at least we have thorough audits that tell us where each of our dollars is spent…

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#696

Post by cco »

ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #630
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I searched for the engine nacelles issue, that appears to only apply to an earlier version (737 NG) of the 737, not the MAX. Which kinda proves my point - someone saying "I don't want to fly on a 737 MAX" may just get put on another plane that has different issues. I guess if you've completely lost faith in Boeing you can decide not to fly any of their planes, but that's going to make flying at all very difficul…

Actually, it's the new Max 7: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boein... It's not clear if older models suffer from the same defect.

Any of the newly engined Max models are involved, even the Max 8 and 9. The problem with the de-icing mechanism was only found _after_ the 8 and 9 were certified so they've been allowed to continue flying with the "pilot fix" in place (this is ludicrous btw).

The Max 7 is being blocked currently because it hasn't been certified yet.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#697

Post by thfuran »

rightbyte wrote: post #644
bmitc wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to consider what is safer when something goes wromg . Are there statistics that track this across different modes of travel?

Your car won't fall out of the sky in the event of a malfunction so I guess cars are safer "when something goes wrong"? Then again cars travel with less margin of error to other cars and objects than airplanes.

An airplane falling out the sky is something like the equivalent of the wheels falling off of a car traveling at speed. It's not that it can't happen, but it's hardly the only possible result of a malfunction.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#700

Post by jaybrendansmith »

jcadam wrote: post #327
jaybrendansmith wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly it. The skilled politicians are the reason why the company failed in the first place. They then take over the acquiring company from within like a virus and destroy that next. Rule of thumb: If a company is failing and you purchase it, fire everybody. Either the culture or the people are poison, and they will infect you.

> fire everybody At the very least, anyone in a management position.

Yes absolutely - keep the skilled folks below the VP level and perhaps some of the Directors. Generally garbage flows from the top down, and they've been putting up with it this entire time.
Post reply on HN