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Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

digitalcameraworld.com

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Re: Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

#241

Post by ChuckMcM »

epaga wrote: post #222
ChuckMcM wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, holy crap! Second, #3 is always a red flag for me. It is sometimes code for "we can do this in the lab but we have no idea how one would manufacture it." A similar analogy is "we've got this great idea for a program you can license but no one here knows how to actually code it up." Third, the impact of this going mainstream would be hard to underestimate. All those people working on transparent displays like t…

Here is a demo video from someone who was there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NORPeCcIXRQ (from another hn comment)

Ooh thanks for that! Showing monochrome only. I wonder if three layers of glass would get you color? And fixed focus (not too surprising) but that answers two questions I had initially.

As they claim this can also do display (presumably to replace the camera element with a projection element) it would be interesting to see what level of opacity they can achieve in a brightly lit environment.

Re: Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

#242

Post by theyinwhy »

Johnny555 wrote: post #239
theyinwhy wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pinhole cameras by definition do not have lenses and are known since 500 BCE or 1893 if you need a recording unit ;)

Language and technology has evolved a bit since 1893: https://www.google.com/search?q=pinhole+surveillance+camera

But does the use of the word pinhole make any sense if it is not a pinhole but a "3.7mm" lense? Pinhole camera is a specific term used for more than a century now. It is well defined. Now someone from marketing thought "let's call our small camera a pinhole camera". Sry, but that is not a pinhole camera. That camera also exists since ages and is called an endoscope camera.

Words are important in IT and if everyone would just think a bit more about terms they use we would have way less friction with business and less business logic bugs.

Re: Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

#243

Post by Johnny555 »

theyinwhy wrote: post #242
Johnny555 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language and technology has evolved a bit since 1893: https://www.google.com/search?q=pinhole+surveillance+camera

But does the use of the word pinhole make any sense if it is not a pinhole but a "3.7mm" lense? Pinhole camera is a specific term used for more than a century now. It is well defined. Now someone from marketing thought "let's call our small camera a pinhole camera". Sry, but that is not a pinhole camera. That camera also exists since ages and is called an endoscope camera. Words are important in IT and if everyone wo…

>Words are important in IT and if everyone would just think a bit more about terms they use we would have way less friction with business and less business logic bugs.

I wish you the best of luck in your quest to make the English language follow rational rules.

Re: Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

#244

Post by ijhuygft776 »

rocqua wrote: post #223
WhackyIdeas wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I had this worrying idea (realisation..?) that one day, maybe triple digit years away, maybe sooner, that tiny cameras and mics the size of grains of salt will be everywhere. They will cost nothing to produce, be self-charging, interconnected to each other and created to ‘reduce crime’ or ‘make you safer’. And in the same way as forever chemicals, you can’t get rid of them. Trillions of them, in fields, the…

With a sufficient culture shift, I could imagine a world where the capability exists but is outlawed and shunned. Surveillance capitalism, and blanket security Surveillance feel possible to overthrow politically. And to limit somewhat through legislation. That leaves targeted surveillance, emergency surveillance, and war-time surveillance. Those will probably not be limited, though they are inherently more limited.

laws are the only thing that can save us... but with the top secret laws that we are subject to, I dont hold my breath.

Re: Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

#245

Post by mensetmanusman »

liftm wrote: post #238
dghughes wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people think that light goes through glass like a laser beam nothing in its way. Just flying right through. But it's actually like a pool ball hitting another pool ago and so on. The original photon of light is not what you see on the other side of the glass.

I did mostly think that. So what's the thing in the glass that gets hit like the "another pool ball"?

The oscillations of charge in the glass.

Re: Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

#246

Post by ithkuil »

Johnny555 wrote: post #243
theyinwhy wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But does the use of the word pinhole make any sense if it is not a pinhole but a "3.7mm" lense? Pinhole camera is a specific term used for more than a century now. It is well defined. Now someone from marketing thought "let's call our small camera a pinhole camera". Sry, but that is not a pinhole camera. That camera also exists since ages and is called an endoscope camera. Words are important in IT and if everyone wo…

>Words are important in IT and if everyone would just think a bit more about terms they use we would have way less friction with business and less business logic bugs. I wish you the best of luck in your quest to make the English language follow rational rules.

I think there is value in complaining and resisting a bit, but one has to be ready to let go when the point of no return is crossed.

Re: Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

#247

Post by ithkuil »

dghughes wrote: post #235
mensetmanusman wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fresh piece of uncoated perfectly clean glass is ~ 90% transparent.

I think people think that light goes through glass like a laser beam nothing in its way. Just flying right through. But it's actually like a pool ball hitting another pool ago and so on. The original photon of light is not what you see on the other side of the glass.

I found this 3blue1brown video to be a fascinating explaination on how light gets transmitted by transparent material:

https://youtu.be/KTzGBJPuJwM?si=hw_SIaklkqfVSGnc

Re: Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

#248

Post by bradknowles »

AnarchismIsCool wrote: post #74

For the people kinda worried: this is a highly specialized piece of glass that is extremely complicated to manufacture at present and must, due to the laws of thermodynamics, not be 100% transparent. It's not going to allow surveillance through existing glass installations in any form, just possibly new ones if there's room for the support equipment and through the use of 4-5 digit piles of cash. Any camera glass lik…

There are some places where a not-completely 90% transparent piece of glass might not raise too much suspicion, but it could be more difficult to retrofit with a more traditional "pinhole" style spycam.

Like the wall of a shower stall, which you would expect to be less than 100% transparent.

I do think this threat model is less likely, however.

What I think is more likely is a Minority Report style system where there are pervasive cameras everywhere, constantly scanning your face, etc.... Maybe not constantly scanning your retinas and identifying you that way, but facial recognition alone would be more than enough. Either way, once you're recognized, you could be easily tracked silently, or you could be called out publicly by a nearby display.

Re: Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

#249

Post by fennecbutt »

Johnny555 wrote: post #188
AnarchismIsCool wrote: post #74

For the people kinda worried: this is a highly specialized piece of glass that is extremely complicated to manufacture at present and must, due to the laws of thermodynamics, not be 100% transparent. It's not going to allow surveillance through existing glass installations in any form, just possibly new ones if there's room for the support equipment and through the use of 4-5 digit piles of cash. Any camera glass lik…

>For the people kinda worried: this is a highly specialized piece of glass that is extremely complicated to manufacture at present and must, due to the laws of thermodynamics, not be 100% transparent. It's not going to allow surveillance through existing glass installations in any form If you're worried that your Airbnb host is going to use it to spy on you (which was mentioned in the article), unless you already scr…

Nobody would ever find a OV6948 if it was hidden.

Re: Zeiss's "Holocam" turns glass windows into cameras

#250

Post by zestyping »

theyinwhy wrote: post #242
Johnny555 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language and technology has evolved a bit since 1893: https://www.google.com/search?q=pinhole+surveillance+camera

But does the use of the word pinhole make any sense if it is not a pinhole but a "3.7mm" lense? Pinhole camera is a specific term used for more than a century now. It is well defined. Now someone from marketing thought "let's call our small camera a pinhole camera". Sry, but that is not a pinhole camera. That camera also exists since ages and is called an endoscope camera. Words are important in IT and if everyone wo…

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