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IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

nytimes.com

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Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#211

Post by kalleboo »

Dalewyn wrote: post #192
toomuchtodo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed! Japan’s system is very efficient, and he has lived there for some time, so he should be familiar. Similarly, it took the US forever to implement an instant payment system (commercial banks built Zelle via Early Warning Systems and RTP via The Clearinghouse, and the Fed finally built FedNow after Congress directed them to in order to ensure universal access) while India and Brazil rapidly rolled out their impl…

>Japan’s system is very efficient, Yes, because there is only one tax authority (国税庁, Kokuzeichou, National Tax Agency). Here in the US, we have more than one tax authority: We have the IRS, which is the federal tax authority. Each state then has their own tax authority. Each county then has their own tax authority. Each city then might have their own tax authority. And we must submit filings and returns with and pay…

Japan also has prefectural and city taxes that vary by prefecture/city, and get charged separately (the bill comes later in the year from the national tax), they still get their taxes. Just in a less convoluted manner.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#212

Post by mixdup »

neilkk wrote: post #172
_ihaque wrote: post #98

For anyone interested in why the system looks the way it does, I recommend patio11's insightful recent blog post, which is nominally about payroll systems but ends up discussing the history of taxation in the US because that's the origination of many of these systems: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/payroll-providers-pow... A relevant quotation for much of the discussion here: > And, relevant to the question o…

patio11 has a huge and well known bias here, which is that he wants to claim, not necessarily with evidence, that all inefficiency is caused by governments and not by the private sector. A comparison of tax filing in the United States with other countries, including those where governments are much bigger and more interventionist, leads to a different conclusion.

>that all inefficiency is caused by governments

Forget about the evidence of other countries (which is completely valid), I just hate the argument that government inherently because it's government is inefficient and will never be effective

In the US half the people in charge of the government hate it and want it to fail. Of course it's going to be bloated, inefficient, and costly. It's being sabotaged from the top. If everyone agreed that, once we make a choice on what the government is going to do we should do it well, we could have government services that are just as effective as whatever private enterprise example people always like to cite (being from the South it's usually the Chick Fil A drive-thru)

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#213

Post by mixdup »

Dalewyn wrote: post #192
toomuchtodo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed! Japan’s system is very efficient, and he has lived there for some time, so he should be familiar. Similarly, it took the US forever to implement an instant payment system (commercial banks built Zelle via Early Warning Systems and RTP via The Clearinghouse, and the Fed finally built FedNow after Congress directed them to in order to ensure universal access) while India and Brazil rapidly rolled out their impl…

>Japan’s system is very efficient, Yes, because there is only one tax authority (国税庁, Kokuzeichou, National Tax Agency). Here in the US, we have more than one tax authority: We have the IRS, which is the federal tax authority. Each state then has their own tax authority. Each county then has their own tax authority. Each city then might have their own tax authority. And we must submit filings and returns with and pay…

I'm curious percentage wise how many people are having to file returns with their city or county. I've lived in two states (Alabama and Georgia) and even in a city with an "income tax" at the city level and have only ever had to file federal and state taxes

In Alabama the county and city I lived and worked in both had what they deem occupational taxes which are effectively an payroll tax, but there was no system of exemptions or refunds, it operated as a payroll tax only. My employer had to file the taxes, not me

I suspect the vast majority of people in the US only ever file state and federal returns, although a lot of people live in small states or along state borders so a lot probably have to file two state returns

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#214

Post by lokar »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #206
lokar wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some very low income workers that get the EIC end up with a net payment.

TIL! Every tax form I’ve ever filled out has an instruction like: > Enter the lesser of lines X and Y when applying deductions and credits to prevent them from exceeding some value. I’m surprised to learn that the EIC isn’t clamped like this.

It is a refundable credit

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#215

Post by mixdup »

mrmanner wrote: post #196
Dalewyn wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Japan’s system is very efficient, Yes, because there is only one tax authority (国税庁, Kokuzeichou, National Tax Agency). Here in the US, we have more than one tax authority: We have the IRS, which is the federal tax authority. Each state then has their own tax authority. Each county then has their own tax authority. Each city then might have their own tax authority. And we must submit filings and returns with and pay…

> Paying taxes in the US is complicated because everyone wants their taxes Everyone wants their taxes and refuses to cooperate. Most countries have some kind of local or regional taxes, and the single tax authority is responsible for collecting and distributing them all. I get that the federal level in the US is a bit special (EU for example doesn’t tax citizens directly, instead the member states pay fees from their…

>Most countries have some kind of local or regional taxes, and the single tax authority is responsible for collecting and distributing them all.

Most states operate this way. Counties will often collect city taxes, and in some states the state will collect the city and county taxes. There are obviously exceptions but within states there's a lot more cooperation than you might think

And most individuals are not paying income taxes to cities or counties, they're paying property taxes and that is typically automatically handled via their mortgage company

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#216

Post by moduspol »

mixdup wrote: post #212
neilkk wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

patio11 has a huge and well known bias here, which is that he wants to claim, not necessarily with evidence, that all inefficiency is caused by governments and not by the private sector. A comparison of tax filing in the United States with other countries, including those where governments are much bigger and more interventionist, leads to a different conclusion.

>that all inefficiency is caused by governments Forget about the evidence of other countries (which is completely valid), I just hate the argument that government inherently because it's government is inefficient and will never be effective In the US half the people in charge of the government hate it and want it to fail. Of course it's going to be bloated, inefficient, and costly. It's being sabotaged from the top.…

And that's why our west coast cities, which are not run by the half that hates government, are shining beacons of just how effective and successful governments can be.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#218

Post by bschwindHN »

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #46

Will unfortunately probably have to use ID.me because an IRS decision-maker's cousin owns it.

It's infuriating trying to log in with id.me as someone who lives outside the states. Your foreign documents keep getting denied with little reason as to why, so you have to keep uploading and trying again and again until you please whatever poor soul is mindlessly looking at pictures of documents all day.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#219

Post by [deleted] »

georgyo wrote: post #205
mcherm wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife calculates and submits our taxes (here in the US). It typically takes her 40 to 60 hours to complete, and that's after spending around $100 USD on tax preparation software to make it easier. To be fair, our taxes are more complex than many people's (I live in a different state than my employer and we have some stock market investments), but it's still ABSURDLY difficult. And I'm not counting the time needed t…

What?! I do my taxes myself for my family. I have W2s, K1s, various 1099s for investments, own a home, and deal with carry overs from the previous years. It takes me about an hour to do it. And then another hour to amend them many months later when I get my actual K1s. How hard is it to answer 100 questions and copy numbers over from one place to another? W2 box 1 goes to W2 box 1. No I don't own a corn farm. I donat…

[deleted]

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#220

Post by mv4 »

georgyo wrote: post #205
mcherm wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife calculates and submits our taxes (here in the US). It typically takes her 40 to 60 hours to complete, and that's after spending around $100 USD on tax preparation software to make it easier. To be fair, our taxes are more complex than many people's (I live in a different state than my employer and we have some stock market investments), but it's still ABSURDLY difficult. And I'm not counting the time needed t…

What?! I do my taxes myself for my family. I have W2s, K1s, various 1099s for investments, own a home, and deal with carry overs from the previous years. It takes me about an hour to do it. And then another hour to amend them many months later when I get my actual K1s. How hard is it to answer 100 questions and copy numbers over from one place to another? W2 box 1 goes to W2 box 1. No I don't own a corn farm. I donat…

Same. W2s across 3 states, K1s, 1099s, LLC and Schedule C - takes a few hours, incl. state filings. Usually complete it in one day.
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