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IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

nytimes.com

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Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#141

Post by tomnipotent »

a123b456c wrote: post #122
whakim wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This claim is not correct in several ways. The $80B was not earmarked for hiring agents; that was an additional $80B for the entire agency spread over 10 years. While some of that money might be used to hire additional agents, it will also be used to upgrade old technology (the IRS still uses software from the 1950s), make fixed capital investments that have been long-deferred, regulate third-party tax preparers, pro…

I appreciate your corrections and agree with all of them. Yet they do not imply IRS is operating efficiently, as efficiency is left undefined. If we're talking about social efficiency, the tax code appears massively inefficient to me. I believe the tax code should be redesigned to reduce that inefficiency. That may obviate many IRS needs for resources.

> yet they do not imply IRS is operating efficiently

The IRS budget for 2020 was $11.5bln to support $3.42 trillion in tax receipts, so I'm not sure that's inefficient. Could it be more efficient? Sure, but it's not as bad as people like to paint it. For comparison, the Los Angeles Unified School District budget alone for that same year was $15bln.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#142

Post by freeone3000 »

avrionov wrote: post #90
usaar333 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless you're dealing with foreign income, are a business, or do a lot of contract work for cash, I don't see much reason why the IRS can't just handle all the taxes automatically - apart from the fact that some company wants to charge me $150 a year to file my taxes and making sure that my tax situation (which would fit on a beer coaster otherwise) is as complicated as possible. I imagine there are heavy software…

IRS already audits at least 10% of the returns. They should have the entire tax system implemented as a software. It is madness that this part was hidden from the wide audience. As many software projects, the internal system may not be appropriate for external use, but still they should have components very long time ago.

>IRS already audits at least 10% of the returns. They should have the entire tax system implemented as a software

The audits are accomplished by a human re-doing the return with the submitted information. (As no surprise, the low-complexity returns are often chosen)

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#143

Post by tomnipotent »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #135
mjamesaustin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRS funding is objectively efficient. Every additional $1 spent on IRS budget brings in $5-9 of additional funding through enforcement. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57444

No, that just means it makes economic sense to spend it. Doesnt mean that IRS is run the most optimal and efficient way. You can have a very inefficient monopoloy that still makes a lot of money because it is a monopoly. One can imagine where IRS is more effcient and 1 dollar spent results in 20 dollars more etc.

> run the most optimal and efficient way

Why does that matter? No government agency on the planet is run in the most optimal and efficient way; nor businesses or even households. What actually matters is the trend and how it's current efficacy compares to its past.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#145

Post by kelnos »

hackernewds wrote: post #68
freedomben wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who don't know, of those 12 states, only 4 actually have income taxes. The other 8 do not. This whole system stinks. The overly complicated tax code, the sleazy corporations making tons of money on it, the entrenched politicians and bureacrats who make a living on it, etc.

We can still appreciate progress. And this is progress. Although if the IRS is gonna audit when I under pay, they technically already know how much I owe. Why not just tell me? Reckon it's since people also over pay, and there's no refunds for doing that.

> Reckon it's since people also over pay, and there's no refunds for doing that.

Sure there are. I've gotten refunds from the IRS when I made a mistake on my tax return and overpaid.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#146

Post by kelnos »

terminous wrote: post #138
bubbleRefuge wrote: post #136

[flagged]

Flagged as irrelevant to topic of discussion.

At the risk of doing what I'm about to ask you not to do: please don't comment just to talk about moderation decisions. It's boring and doesn't add to the discussion. If you want to flag or downvote, simply do it and move on.

> If you flag, please don't also comment that you did.[0]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#148

Post by nvr219 »

_ihaque wrote: post #98

For anyone interested in why the system looks the way it does, I recommend patio11's insightful recent blog post, which is nominally about payroll systems but ends up discussing the history of taxation in the US because that's the origination of many of these systems: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/payroll-providers-pow... A relevant quotation for much of the discussion here: > And, relevant to the question o…

Norquist is so flipping ridiculous.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#149

Post by bfdm »

a123b456c wrote: post #122
whakim wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This claim is not correct in several ways. The $80B was not earmarked for hiring agents; that was an additional $80B for the entire agency spread over 10 years. While some of that money might be used to hire additional agents, it will also be used to upgrade old technology (the IRS still uses software from the 1950s), make fixed capital investments that have been long-deferred, regulate third-party tax preparers, pro…

I appreciate your corrections and agree with all of them. Yet they do not imply IRS is operating efficiently, as efficiency is left undefined. If we're talking about social efficiency, the tax code appears massively inefficient to me. I believe the tax code should be redesigned to reduce that inefficiency. That may obviate many IRS needs for resources.

It doesn't need to be "efficient" in terms of cost, that doesn't really matter. What matters much more is whether it is seen and being effective and fair in collection of taxes & enforcement of violators.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#150

Post by worik »

MenhirMike wrote: post #34
crazydoggers wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we still have the income tax system that we do. It’s a $14 billion a year industry. I’ve talked to people who work the lobbying system very hard. There’s lots of wining and dining to make sure no one messes with the complexity of the system. We need more people who are immune to lobbying in government positions. We’ll see how this goes.. depending on the next election cycle this will either get quashed qu…

Which is really the main issue. Offering a more accessible free version to file taxes is great, but the real problem is the need to file taxes at all for a lot of people. The IRS already knows the relevant info: Your employer sends W-2 information, your bank and broker are sending the various 1099 forms for interest, dividends, stock sale gains/losses, etc. Same for your spouse and kids/dependents. Don't even need to…

> but the real problem is the need to file taxes at all for a lot of people.

Yes

In New Zealand where I live most people do not file at all. Tax is all "payroll tax" and sales tax

I have just joined that system myself (after several unpleasant years of not being on a payroll. Whew!

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