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FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

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Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#351

Post by hamstercat »

Symbiote wrote: post #268
hnarn wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The light only means that having it fastened is mandatory. There are many reasons to keep it on during the entire flight, the most common of which is turbulence.

In Europe that's what seems to be a standard announcement. "The captain has switched off the fasten seatbelt sign, but we recommend you keep your seatbelt fastened at all times when seated, in case of sudden turbulence."

It’s the same with canadian and asian airlines. Is it not the case in the US?

I just assumed all airlines did it.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#352

Post by JonChesterfield »

lostlogin wrote: post #280
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a catastrophic failure of a two month old plane. I think grounding is warranted until the scope of the problem is understood.

> I think grounding is warranted until the scope of the problem is understood. If the problem is the whole model or ‘Boeing’, both of which seem possible, what then?

If Boeing is necessary for national defence and no longer knows how to build aircraft, drastic action is needed by the US government on a very short timeframe to get their shit together. War is a thing.

In the meantime it's hard to disagree with the sentiment elsewhere in this thread that flying with airbus seems a better idea.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#353

Post by liquidgecka »

mnbion wrote: post #331

Most Airbus manufacturing happens in or near big cities like Toulouse, Hamburg, and Seville. These cities have plenty of engineering talent and plenty of colleges, universities, and other companies creating and nurturing this talent. Meanwhile most Boeing manufacturing seems to be taking place in rural areas (or "flyover states" as you Americans put it). This is of course because of the local and state subsidies that…

That's a pretty awful take on engineering culture. I grew up in a city that is one of the most remote in the US and it creates a massive engineering pipeline. It started with civil engineering but moved into ICs, utility power, trains, on and on. Those companies helped build an engineering college which in turn trained engineers.. etc.

None of those companies have had issues getting talent. Not all good engineers want to live in mega urban areas and infact it was quite easy pulling talent away with the promise of a back yard and skiing fifteen minutes away if said talent had kids. Especially when the salary goes 2x as far.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#354

Post by JKCalhoun »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #115
physhster wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Famous last words.

It's like sneaking a bomb on board for safety purposes. "I mean, what are the odds that there are TWO bombs on this plane?"

Guessing you're quoting Laurie Anderson.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#355

Post by neilv »

intunderflow wrote: post #49
mrandish wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least Airbus seems to be competent in building safe aircraft. Prior to new models released in the last ~10yrs-ish, Boeing made the safest planes in the sky (as measured by passenger miles). Many of those planes are still flying and still doing great. For me the interesting question is what changed in Boeing's design, testing and/or manufacturing processes which is apparently resulting in worse safety performance…

I've heard that when they merged with McDonnell Douglas their new (McDonnell) management pushed out the good engineering culture and dropped their quality standards in a chase for more profit, leading to engineering experiencing the dead sea effect.

Is there an opposite of the Dead Sea Effect?

(I'm not talking about self-congratulatory conceits, like "raising the bar" and "fire fast", since the companies that first come to mind as saying those things tend to produce a large quantity of often poor quality, in very visible ways. Do we have concepts or terms lately for a place where most everyone does great work, and people who don't rise to that don't remain there?)

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#356

Post by thatwasunusual »

mertd wrote: post #245
Miraste wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't trusted Alaska since the Flight 261 crash, where they failed to do basic maintenance for so long that the screw threads in the stabilizer system wore away and locked the plane in the "straight down" orientation. And fired and sued a mechanic who reported the problem. 100% fatalities.

That's more than two decades ago. People involved must have long left the company. They might even be working for other airlines.

> They might even be working for other airlines.

They are part of management now. ;)

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#357

Post by SoftTalker »

Zigurd wrote: post #124

How even does a "plug" door blow out like that? That's a seemingly very robust design where cabin pressure holds the door in place passively, in addition to the latches holding it in place.

It's a plug, sort of. There are fingers that interlock, but if the plug is moved vertically the fingers do not align and the "plug" can be removed outwards. There are supposed to be bolts installed (or in case of an actual door, a latching mechanism) to prevent this vertical movement.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#358

Post by JonChesterfield »

iancmceachern wrote: post #293

We really need another player in this space. There are these startups like Boom etc. Trying to do new things, we should do one that's just normal planes, made right.

I am so excited for the SV move fast and break things philosophy applied to commercial aircraft. Control software via javascript, make lots of it out of lithium for the ecological branding, don't bother with pilots. Going to be very exciting.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#359

Post by iancmceachern »

JonChesterfield wrote: post #358
iancmceachern wrote: post #293

We really need another player in this space. There are these startups like Boom etc. Trying to do new things, we should do one that's just normal planes, made right.

I am so excited for the SV move fast and break things philosophy applied to commercial aircraft. Control software via javascript, make lots of it out of lithium for the ecological branding, don't bother with pilots. Going to be very exciting.

I'm actually saying the opposite.

I'm saying instead of that (boom, etc) we should just make another commercial airplane company that makes regular planes, safely, in a normal way.

You and I are agreeing...

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#360

Post by algesten »

rootusrootus wrote: post #82
asylteltine wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The A380 is the best plane ever made in the entirety of human history. It’s a damn shame it’s not used more. I’m hoping new fuel efficient engines make it viable again because there simply is NOTHING like first class on an A380.

What makes it the best? I've flown on it, and it seems nice enough, though it isn't the most comfortable airliner I've flown on. It's certainly the biggest! But there are only what, 250 or so that were put into service? It's hard to have a strong opinion about a plane in such a small niche.

For me the A380 is the most comfortable. I'm slightly scared of flying, and turbulence making the entire plane jump around makes it that much worse. I'm only speculating, but I think it might be the sheer bulk of the A380 making it the smoothest rides I've ever been on.
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