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FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

cnbc.com

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Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#311

Post by halJordan »

jdksmdbtbdnmsm wrote: post #201
intunderflow wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that when they merged with McDonnell Douglas their new (McDonnell) management pushed out the good engineering culture and dropped their quality standards in a chase for more profit, leading to engineering experiencing the dead sea effect.

in other words: capitalism, the system we've designed our whole society around

Ah yes, the same capitalism that was around for the building of this industry that was incredibly safe up until it wasnt? Or was it safe because it was heavily regulated back then but the heavy regulations today we ignore because "capitalism"? You cant just throw these single word thought-terminators out there. When an actual cartoon is doing better than you it's time to recalibrate. "Think Mark! Think!"

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#312

Post by ethbr1 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #249
ethbr1 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with breaking up Boeing is Airbus. Nowadays, to realistically restore competiveness in an industry, you'd have to coordinate a worldwide breakup of similarly-integrated competitors.

If the broken-up bits are uncompetitive with a monolith, that’s an argument against pursuing a break-up.

Well, there's product-price-uncompetitive and then externality-inclusive-uncompetitive.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#313

Post by neuralRiot »

marcosdumay wrote: post #232
Miraste wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two of those are manufacturing mistakes, and it seems likely the door one is as well. Not that that helps the passengers, but they're not systemic design flaws. That anti-icing system is deranged, though. They effectively installed a timed detonator on the engines and want a safety exemption for it.

> but they're not systemic design flaws. Hum, yes, instead Boeing seems to have systemic manufacturing flaws. Do we have a reason to believe those are contained into the Max line?

Isn’t the manufacturing process and quality assurance part of the design in “products” like these? It is in car manufacturing so i assume it should, I don’t believe is sort of an “artisan” production line.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#315

Post by notahacker »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #249
ethbr1 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with breaking up Boeing is Airbus. Nowadays, to realistically restore competiveness in an industry, you'd have to coordinate a worldwide breakup of similarly-integrated competitors.

If the broken-up bits are uncompetitive with a monolith, that’s an argument against pursuing a break-up.

I believe that was the point. Aircraft economics barely sustains two airframers per market segment, and uncompetitive offerings aren't going to raise safety/QC bars in a regulated industry

(and whilst you've got the scope to leave the airframe design/sales op alone and [further] vertically disintegrate the supply chain instead, that might actually make it worse, with the Spirit/Boeing relationship plausibly having a causal relationship with this incident)

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#316

Post by onpointed »

jdksmdbtbdnmsm wrote: post #262
crisdux wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this isn't a well-functioning capitalist system. Competition is a core principle of capitalism. What occurred in the aerospace industry represents a government-sanctioned monopoly.

> Competition is a core principle of capitalism Capitalism is literally defined by the ability to invest capital to accumulate more of it by way of profit. The logical end of this process is straightforwardly monopoly.

And if the world/environment/context of the business didn’t change then the monopolies might last, but because there is change there is room to innovate and outcompete the monopolies.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#317

Post by cellis »

bombcar wrote: post #229
cratermoon wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhere in the suburbs south of Portland, possibly near Metzger.

NTSB will find it, they’re surprisingly thorough.

How would triangulation of that small of an item be done?

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#319

Post by halJordan »

malfist wrote: post #263
crisdux wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this isn't a well-functioning capitalist system. Competition is a core principle of capitalism. What occurred in the aerospace industry represents a government-sanctioned monopoly.

Monopolies are the end goal of capitalism

Monopolies are broken by capitalism just as much as they're created by capitalism. The whole "end-stage capitalism" schtick is wrong because a free market will lead to the ossification and then breakdown of a monopolist. You just have to finish spring semester of Econ101 to find out how.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#320

Post by coredog64 »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #79
throw0101d wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes: the running joke is/was that McD bought Boeing with Boeing's money. * https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing... * https://archive.is/q5pQV * https://qz.com/1776080/how-the-mcdonnell-douglas-boeing-merg... * https://simpleflying.com/mcdonnel-douglas-boeing-merger/ B was pressured to buy McD for 'national security' reasons. What would have been a better idea would have been, instead of doing…

You don't have to keep the management from the company you've bought.

Phil Condit only had his job through the influence of his wife at the time. Unfortunately, he was busy diddling his executive assistant at the time of the merger, clearing a path for Harry Stonechiseler to be CEO.
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