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FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

cnbc.com

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Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#271

Post by krisoft »

derefr wrote: post #235
mastax wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A manufacturing mistake which makes it into service is a failure of QA and testing systems design. (At least above a certain threshold which varies depending on the industry etc. etc.)

Depends. You can’t do e.g. crystallographical analysis of metals inside an engine if the engine is already put together. You have to trust your vendor that they built the engine correctly and checked the materials themselves. Or at most send auditors to the vendor.

> You can’t do e.g. crystallographical analysis of metals inside an engine if the engine is already put together.

QA is not forced to only deal with assembled components. They can be embeded before the assembly process to QA the parts. For example they could peform crystallographical analysis on a subset of blades which are ready for assembly.

They can also take apart a certain percentage of randomly selected engines, perform crystallographical analysis on a subset of parts and then re-assemble the engines. Many options.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#273

Post by camillomiller »

crisdux wrote: post #230
jdksmdbtbdnmsm wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in other words: capitalism, the system we've designed our whole society around

No, this isn't a well-functioning capitalist system. Competition is a core principle of capitalism. What occurred in the aerospace industry represents a government-sanctioned monopoly.

It’s always so funny to read this kind of answer when someone points out the evident flaws of capitalism! “Hey, wait a minute, this is not how capitalism is supposed to work, so you can’t say it’s capitalism”. Too bad that capitalism isn’t one monolithic thing and this is ABSOLUTELY how loosely regulated American capitalism works. It’s a form of capitalism where human life is an optimization problem that sits on the way to profits.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#274

Post by salawat »

throwaheyy wrote: post #181
agubelu wrote: post #156

A bit off-topic, but I found it curious that Ryanair refuses to call their Max fleet "737 Max-8", instead they go for "737-8200" in both their safety cards and cabin briefings. I wonder if this is common and if other airlines do the same after the reputational damage from the crashes and groundings.

They call it that because their plane is in fact not a 737 Max 8. Ryanair’s aircraft is a different variant, made only for them, the Max 200 which is the same size as a Max 8 but has the extra exits for up to 200 pax.

That's called a different configuration.

It is still a MAX8. A rose, by any other name...

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#275

Post by lostlogin »

malfist wrote: post #183
tiahura wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on n=1, I’m hesitant to speculate much and so I don’t have any opinion on whether there will be more. I always don’t see how scrapping the 9 makes sense even if he forgot to do all of them.

When will you be happy to extrapolate? When the next incident has bodies? Or will that be another n=1 event?

The whole scenario has ‘the front fell off’, dark comedy vibes. Wish the guy was still alive.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#276

Post by acdha »

jes5199 wrote: post #94
throw0101d wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes: the running joke is/was that McD bought Boeing with Boeing's money. * https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing... * https://archive.is/q5pQV * https://qz.com/1776080/how-the-mcdonnell-douglas-boeing-merg... * https://simpleflying.com/mcdonnel-douglas-boeing-merger/ B was pressured to buy McD for 'national security' reasons. What would have been a better idea would have been, instead of doing…

I’ve heard variations on this story a few times, successful company swallows failing company and gets infected by failing-culture. Isn’t that what happened to Netscape?

Google bought DoubleClick in 2008. Pretty much everything they started after that point has failed because the focus has been on selling ads rather than building something normal people enjoy using.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#277

Post by jcadam »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #212
belter wrote: post #91

Ways in which you can experience an unexpected cabin decompression to the next world...Or join the mile-high never-come-back club, on a Boeing 737 MAX... 1- Loose bolts: "Boeing Urges Airlines to Check for Loose Bolt in newer 737 MAX Aircraft" - https://www.european-views.com/2023/12/boeing-urges-airlines... 2- Leave the anti-icing system on for more than 5 min after non-icing conditions: "Boeing still hasn't fixed t…

Honestly a website for this wouldn’t be a bad idea. In future flights if I’m going to look if there is a 737 max I’m gonna change my flight .

Yep, prefer designs from the Old Boeing (pre-merger). The 737 MAX doesn't count because it is not really a 737...

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#278

Post by switch007 »

throwaheyy wrote: post #181
agubelu wrote: post #156

A bit off-topic, but I found it curious that Ryanair refuses to call their Max fleet "737 Max-8", instead they go for "737-8200" in both their safety cards and cabin briefings. I wonder if this is common and if other airlines do the same after the reputational damage from the crashes and groundings.

They call it that because their plane is in fact not a 737 Max 8. Ryanair’s aircraft is a different variant, made only for them, the Max 200 which is the same size as a Max 8 but has the extra exits for up to 200 pax.

It is in fact a 737 Max 8. It’s a 737-8-200

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#279

Post by hwillis »

Miraste wrote: post #146
belter wrote: post #91

Ways in which you can experience an unexpected cabin decompression to the next world...Or join the mile-high never-come-back club, on a Boeing 737 MAX... 1- Loose bolts: "Boeing Urges Airlines to Check for Loose Bolt in newer 737 MAX Aircraft" - https://www.european-views.com/2023/12/boeing-urges-airlines... 2- Leave the anti-icing system on for more than 5 min after non-icing conditions: "Boeing still hasn't fixed t…

Two of those are manufacturing mistakes, and it seems likely the door one is as well. Not that that helps the passengers, but they're not systemic design flaws. That anti-icing system is deranged, though. They effectively installed a timed detonator on the engines and want a safety exemption for it.

design for manufacturing is a part of engineering

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#280

Post by lostlogin »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #37
jamghee wrote: post #3

>The FAA said the inspections will take between four and eight hours per plane. Seems reasonable. I was wondering if a single event should really be enough to "ground" all similar planes, but seems like they just want to do a quick inspection.

It was a catastrophic failure of a two month old plane. I think grounding is warranted until the scope of the problem is understood.

> I think grounding is warranted until the scope of the problem is understood.

If the problem is the whole model or ‘Boeing’, both of which seem possible, what then?

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