FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s • Hacker News Board

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#141

Post by ryanwaggoner » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 8:02 PM UTC

ls612 wrote: post #81

mrandish wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least Airbus seems to be competent in building safe aircraft. Prior to new models released in the last ~10yrs-ish, Boeing made the safest planes in the sky (as measured by passenger miles). Many of those planes are still flying and still doing great. For me the interesting question is what changed in Boeing's design, testing and/or manufacturing processes which is apparently resulting in worse safety performance…

After the unfortunate incident in Japan this week, the Boeing 787, a plane designed in the 2000s and flying since 2013, is now the only passenger airliner without a hull loss. So they are clearly capable of producing modern safe airliners post merger.

Do you have a source for that? This lists a number of others: https://simpleflying.com/aircraft-types-zero-hull-losses/

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#142

Post by noncoml » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 8:02 PM UTC

yokem55 wrote: post #99

Is there any detail anywhere on what exactly is being inspected? Just the bits of airframe around the where the panel that failed? Can a broader issue with how the airframes were manufactured be ruled out at this point? The cynical part of me wonders if this isn't just a bit of PR to 'ground' the planes for 'inspections' without actually addressing some kind of root cause.

It’s not a hole in the airframe. It’s a plugged emergency exit door that failed. I guess that’s what they check. The bolts there.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#143

Post by bombcar » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 8:03 PM UTC

yokem55 wrote: post #99

Is there any detail anywhere on what exactly is being inspected? Just the bits of airframe around the where the panel that failed? Can a broader issue with how the airframes were manufactured be ruled out at this point? The cynical part of me wonders if this isn't just a bit of PR to 'ground' the planes for 'inspections' without actually addressing some kind of root cause.

Inspection will involve this plane, every other plane around this door/panel, and current manufacturing. Records and maintenance logs will be inspected until they know what happened and why, and then check where it could occur on these planes and others.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#144

Post by CaptainZapp » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 8:03 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #82

asylteltine wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The A380 is the best plane ever made in the entirety of human history. It’s a damn shame it’s not used more. I’m hoping new fuel efficient engines make it viable again because there simply is NOTHING like first class on an A380.

What makes it the best? I've flown on it, and it seems nice enough, though it isn't the most comfortable airliner I've flown on. It's certainly the biggest! But there are only what, 250 or so that were put into service? It's hard to have a strong opinion about a plane in such a small niche.

If the engineering of this plane wouldn't have been that great disaster would have loomed.[0]

No question about that.

[0] https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/a-matter-of-millimeters-...

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#145

Post by akira2501 » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 8:04 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #136

akira2501 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> B was pressured to buy McD for 'national security' reasons. Creating monopolies and reducing suppliers actually harms "national security." Our braindead managerial class in action.

That is correct. However MDD was manufacturing key military products (F-15, F-18) and it was doing bad financially, going bankrupt and jeopardizing the fighter plane production and maintenance was a "national security" problem that forced the Boeing acquisition of MDD.

Weird how you can be a "key manufacturer" yet "go bankrupt." Perhaps they should have just been auctioned off and other investors given an opportunity to create new lines of business out of the incompetent mess they had become. Taking the mess and wholesale buying it into another company and then keeping the management that created the problem in the first place is astronomically dumb.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#146

Post by Miraste » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 8:05 PM UTC

belter wrote: post #91

Ways in which you can experience an unexpected cabin decompression to the next world...Or join the mile-high never-come-back club, on a Boeing 737 MAX... 1- Loose bolts: "Boeing Urges Airlines to Check for Loose Bolt in newer 737 MAX Aircraft" - https://www.european-views.com/2023/12/boeing-urges-airlines... 2- Leave the anti-icing system on for more than 5 min after non-icing conditions: "Boeing still hasn't fixed t…

Two of those are manufacturing mistakes, and it seems likely the door one is as well. Not that that helps the passengers, but they're not systemic design flaws.

That anti-icing system is deranged, though. They effectively installed a timed detonator on the engines and want a safety exemption for it.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#147

Post by makestuff » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 8:05 PM UTC

childishnemo wrote: post #30

makestuff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and their practices have spread into big tech too.

Can you elaborate?

Amazon was the one that came to mind with prime air/drone delivery https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/amazon-hires-former-boei...

I guess it all really started with everyone’s favorite CEO of GE, Jack Welch. It seems like he created the blueprint for the cost cutting/stack ranking/MBAs/profits over quality that we see today.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#148

Post by matrix_overload » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 8:05 PM UTC

gamepsys wrote: post #23

Boeing is what happens when an engineering focused company gets taken over by MBAs. When it happens to a webtech company we call it enshitification. When it happens to a transportation company lives are actually at risk. Sadly Boeing is important enough to DC that they seem to be allowed to casually risk American lives.

MBAs can only pull this off when there is no competition and they are in bed with the regulators. You can very easily get Boeing back on track by splitting them into multiple competing businesses, but we all know this won't happen.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#149

Post by avidphantasm » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 8:05 PM UTC

bsimpson wrote: post #110

avidphantasm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least we should have a corporate death penalty. Force the company into bankruptcy, de-list it from the stock market, and turn it into a worker-owned co-op that can never be publicly traded or be sold to private equity.

If a corporation can be "punished" to become a co-op, what incentive does that give the employees?

Most workers are already hopelessly alienated and don’t give an eff…

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#150

Post by jgilias » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 8:06 PM UTC

tiahura wrote: post #96

travisgriggs wrote: post #75

At what point does Boeing just scrap the 9s? Completely, for good? It’s all starting to feel like the galaxy note, where you pass a tipping point of no return with public perception.

Because some guy at the factory forgot to lock the door? Isn't that a little melodramatic?

“One doesn’t just” forget things like that. It’s aviation we’re talking about, not toy cars. This absolutely must not happen, and there should be processes in place to make sure it doesn’t.

It doesn’t actually matter if it’s an engineering or a process problem, because both of those point to an organisational problem that needs to be rooted out at a company to which we basically entrust our lives.