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FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

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Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#111

Post by panarky »

krisoft wrote: post #51
whatshisface wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are seeing the "inverted Swiss cheese" model of disaster avoidance: you are only safe if several independent, random events go your way.

I mean, of course it is better that the seats were not occupied, but there is no reason to treat it as if those people for sure would have died if they were on the plane. It sounds like if they were on board and wearing seat belts they would have been fine. Possibly very shaken, but fine.

> wearing seat belts

After the segment of fuselage fell to the earth, after the giant hole opened, after the kid's shirt was ripped away, passengers were standing up at their seats and in the aisle, and flight attendants had to plead with them to sit down and buckle up.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#112

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

jamghee wrote: post #3

>The FAA said the inspections will take between four and eight hours per plane. Seems reasonable. I was wondering if a single event should really be enough to "ground" all similar planes, but seems like they just want to do a quick inspection.

It was only dumb luck that no one got killed because the adjacent seats were empty.

To give you some idea, a teenager seated across the aisle had his shirt completely torn off.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#113

Post by yakkomajuri »

I certainly know nothing about planes yet from the reading I've done on the 737 Max I'm a bit uneasy that these planes are still flying.

I usually subscribe to the mentality that something that had a significant issue that was fixed is overly scrutinized and thus becomes safe but in this case it seems like the decision-making involved in the making of this plane from the start was flawed, such that I'm not sure patches on patches are enough.

Someone who knows more about planes might say all the issues are unrelated but fundamentally in a system like this I think one thing is bound to affect another, and if not that, then the mentality that led to one issue is likely to have been present in the developing of other components of the system.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#115

Post by CamperBob2 »

physhster wrote: post #38
aplummer wrote: post #28

Two days ago before we got on one of these planes I said to my partner “don’t worry, it’s the most scrutinized plane in history”.

Famous last words.

It's like sneaking a bomb on board for safety purposes. "I mean, what are the odds that there are TWO bombs on this plane?"

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#116

Post by brewdad »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #104
throw0101d wrote: post #29

Good book describing the cultural change from engineering-focus to business-focus of Boeing: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55994102-flying-blind * https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/646497/flying-blind...

Has there been any push to break up Boeing?

Boeings breaking up is how we got here.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#118

Post by intunderflow »

yakkomajuri wrote: post #113

I certainly know nothing about planes yet from the reading I've done on the 737 Max I'm a bit uneasy that these planes are still flying. I usually subscribe to the mentality that something that had a significant issue that was fixed is overly scrutinized and thus becomes safe but in this case it seems like the decision-making involved in the making of this plane from the start was flawed, such that I'm not sure patch…

The FAA will never ban it because politically its untenable in the US, the only thing that could kill the Max off would be if another big regulator such as EASA refused to let the Max into their airspace.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#119

Post by whycome »

throw0101d wrote: post #64
wkat4242 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a documentary on Netflix recently that alleged that a lot of this change came from importing McDonnell Douglas management into Boeing after the acquisition. I wonder if the book concurs on that, I don't have time to read it right now. If this is the case I wonder if it could be reversible.

Yes: the running joke is/was that McD bought Boeing with Boeing's money. * https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing... * https://archive.is/q5pQV * https://qz.com/1776080/how-the-mcdonnell-douglas-boeing-merg... * https://simpleflying.com/mcdonnel-douglas-boeing-merger/ B was pressured to buy McD for 'national security' reasons. What would have been a better idea would have been, instead of doing…

> B was pressured to buy McD for 'national security' reasons.

Are we seeing similar things right now? Will companies like OpenAI or Nvidia be forced to merge or buy other players in the space?

Nvidia already has to work around export restrictions. https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/17/23921131/us-china-restri...

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#120

Post by CamperBob2 »

grepfru_it wrote: post #32
asylteltine wrote: post #10

Good. Finally the FAA got a spine with Boeing.

They did it for the DC10 and 787 (grounded for inspections). They didn’t need to do it before because Boeing was an actual engineering company

To be fair, there are a lot of rose-colored sunglasses in the crowd of Boeing critics. The rudder problems with the original 737 weren't exactly McDonnell-Douglas's fault: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues
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