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FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

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Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#51

Post by krisoft »

whatshisface wrote: post #21
s5300 wrote: post #5

I’d at first read the plane was without passengers and just being flown somewhere… and I thought, great. Today I read that it was full of passengers, and the two people supposed to be in the two seats in the row the panel blew out happened to miss their flight. If that’s true… what an interesting set of statistics coming together. Amount of people that sleep through flights Amount of panels that blow out of passenger…

We are seeing the "inverted Swiss cheese" model of disaster avoidance: you are only safe if several independent, random events go your way.

I mean, of course it is better that the seats were not occupied, but there is no reason to treat it as if those people for sure would have died if they were on the plane.

It sounds like if they were on board and wearing seat belts they would have been fine. Possibly very shaken, but fine.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#52

Post by aaomidi »

blindriver wrote: post #44
zitterbewegung wrote: post #34

This is sort of ironic because they asked to bypass some safety checks on the 737 max 7 recently. Note this is a different model. EDIT: The bypass is about the deicer. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boein...

Does it have the same manufacturing process? It wasn't anything specific to the plane's model, it was the fact that it was a manufacturing defect that caused the door to blow out.

The problem here is the company and its management, not a specific plane.

The management trying to weasel out of yet another regulation is entirely showing what’s going on here.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#53

Post by cf1241290841 »

mrandish wrote: post #35
intunderflow wrote: post #2

At least Airbus seems to be competent in building safe aircraft. I would not be surprised though if Boeing's sales drop if the US government brings in tariffs or etc to try and force companies to buy their flying coffins.

> At least Airbus seems to be competent in building safe aircraft. Prior to new models released in the last ~10yrs-ish, Boeing made the safest planes in the sky (as measured by passenger miles). Many of those planes are still flying and still doing great. For me the interesting question is what changed in Boeing's design, testing and/or manufacturing processes which is apparently resulting in worse safety performance…

There is a book recommendation in the other thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38894227

The McDonnell Douglas merger is also worth mentioning in this context.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#55

Post by xvector »

avidphantasm wrote: post #31
el-dude-arino wrote: post #6

[flagged]

At the very least we should have a corporate death penalty. Force the company into bankruptcy, de-list it from the stock market, and turn it into a worker-owned co-op that can never be publicly traded or be sold to private equity.

A death penalty for grossly negligent execs is also necessary.

They'd get their shit together so fast if they faced meaningful consequences to their fuckups.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#56

Post by wkat4242 »

throw0101d wrote: post #29

Good book describing the cultural change from engineering-focus to business-focus of Boeing: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55994102-flying-blind * https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/646497/flying-blind...

I watched a documentary on Netflix recently that alleged that a lot of this change came from importing McDonnell Douglas management into Boeing after the acquisition. I wonder if the book concurs on that, I don't have time to read it right now.

If this is the case I wonder if it could be reversible.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#57

Post by rootusrootus »

vlovich123 wrote: post #40
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a catastrophic failure of a two month old plane. I think grounding is warranted until the scope of the problem is understood.

Yeah especially given the public trust the FAA needs to rebuild after it came out how Boeing got the 737 certified in the first place. It’s an unmitigated shit show top to bottom.

> 737

You mean 737MAX. The 737 and 737NG have been around for decades (almost 60 years for the 737, almost 30 for the 737NG). IIRC the 737NG has a reasonable case for being the safest airliner ever built. There are some designs that have no fatalities, but they also have very low production numbers to go with it.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#58

Post by [deleted] »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #37
jamghee wrote: post #3

>The FAA said the inspections will take between four and eight hours per plane. Seems reasonable. I was wondering if a single event should really be enough to "ground" all similar planes, but seems like they just want to do a quick inspection.

It was a catastrophic failure of a two month old plane. I think grounding is warranted until the scope of the problem is understood.

[deleted]

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#60

Post by IceHegel »

LargeTomato wrote: post #46
gamepsys wrote: post #23

Boeing is what happens when an engineering focused company gets taken over by MBAs. When it happens to a webtech company we call it enshitification. When it happens to a transportation company lives are actually at risk. Sadly Boeing is important enough to DC that they seem to be allowed to casually risk American lives.

Boeing is late stage MBA. Intel is mid-stage MBA. Google/Alphabet is early stage MBA.

This seems basically right and there is no known cure save bringing back a founder (Jobs & Apple).
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