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"Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

psychclassics.yorku.ca

11–20 of 112 posts

Re: "Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

#11

Slightly tangential, but is anyone aware of an app/site that can take a URL like this one and convert the text to a format and layout that's easier on the eyes and easier to read in general? Like Kindle-fy a web page full of text?

Try the reader view in chrome or Firefox. For chrome on android I automatically got a prompt to view simplified page

On iOS you can click the icon to the left of the URL input and select reader viewer as well. Hides ads too.

Re: "Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

#12

Slightly tangential, but is anyone aware of an app/site that can take a URL like this one and convert the text to a format and layout that's easier on the eyes and easier to read in general? Like Kindle-fy a web page full of text?

Try the reader view in chrome or Firefox. For chrome on android I automatically got a prompt to view simplified page

In Chrome it seems like clicking the pop up is the only way to access simplified view. If you exit, follow a link, tab away, whatever... I can't figure out how to get it back! Any tips? Really confusing that I'm either missing something obvious or the explicit option is missing.

Re: "Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

#13
I tried to read this but I can’t deal with the writing quality. I think it’s partly the historical nature of the piece, but James is a terrible writer. He is obtuse and pompous and clouds his meaning with confusing sentences. Even the first sentence is a nightmare to read. I’ll try again when I have more focus!

And yes, we have no free will. Not sure if that’s related to this piece.

Re: "Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

#14

1879 These arguments aren't new. This is good argument for why tech/science/stem need to read history, or 'older' science history. To at least be familiar with the science that has come before, either to know what was discarded, to be familiar with past dead ends, or forgotten knowledge that could still have value. A lot of the AI spurred arguments in the last year seem like so much re-hashing since they were being d…

Absolutely agreed. I find it embarrassing how STEM devalued non-STEM studies for years, and now that LLMs are center stage, so is the near-universal unpreparedness of interested parties and stakeholders to wrestle with issues of cognition, consciousness, and ethics. This, despite literally thousands of years of prior studies on these matters.

Even now, I see basic refusal to engage with this extant literature, and a strong preference to just making shit up as if it's the first time anyone has anything interesting to say on these matters. Again, embarrassing. The industry is totally unprepared on an intellectual basis to wrestle with these issues.

Re: "Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

#15

Slightly tangential, but is anyone aware of an app/site that can take a URL like this one and convert the text to a format and layout that's easier on the eyes and easier to read in general? Like Kindle-fy a web page full of text?

You can use browser extensions to send articles (blog posts etc.) directly to kindle.

I am on mobile app at the moment so I don't have links for those extensions.

Re: "Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

#16

1879 These arguments aren't new. This is good argument for why tech/science/stem need to read history, or 'older' science history. To at least be familiar with the science that has come before, either to know what was discarded, to be familiar with past dead ends, or forgotten knowledge that could still have value. A lot of the AI spurred arguments in the last year seem like so much re-hashing since they were being d…

Very true! I think it’s eye opening that almost every one of Chomsky’s lectures on such topics (I.e. “what kind of creatures are we?”) start with a discussion of what Newton, Galileo, or Descartes has to say about it.

The great thinkers of the past aren’t necessarily outdated, in some ways they might still have things to teach us from beyond the grave that we didn’t really appreciate when they were alive.

Re: "Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

#17

1879 These arguments aren't new. This is good argument for why tech/science/stem need to read history, or 'older' science history. To at least be familiar with the science that has come before, either to know what was discarded, to be familiar with past dead ends, or forgotten knowledge that could still have value. A lot of the AI spurred arguments in the last year seem like so much re-hashing since they were being d…

Absolutely agreed. I find it embarrassing how STEM devalued non-STEM studies for years, and now that LLMs are center stage, so is the near-universal unpreparedness of interested parties and stakeholders to wrestle with issues of cognition, consciousness, and ethics. This, despite literally thousands of years of prior studies on these matters. Even now, I see basic refusal to engage with this extant literature, and a…

Are the STEM educated thinkers publishing AI doomsday think pieces or is it the supposedly enlightened non-STEM journalists?

Re: "Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

#18
post #3

Did not expect to see William James pop up on HN. If you're interested in philosophy (especially epistemology), the pragmatists were a fascinating offshoot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James IMHO they were a reasonable response to the irreducible complexity that accreted as a result of applying increasingly specific and complex empiricism to questions far broader than it might be suited to. (E.g. How do w…

Both James and Pragmatic Philosophy have had their own program on the BBC's In Our Time radio show. Very good.

https://www.braggoscope.com/2010/05/13/william-jamess-the-va...

https://www.braggoscope.com/2005/11/17/pragmatism.html

Re: "Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

#19
post #3

Did not expect to see William James pop up on HN. If you're interested in philosophy (especially epistemology), the pragmatists were a fascinating offshoot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James IMHO they were a reasonable response to the irreducible complexity that accreted as a result of applying increasingly specific and complex empiricism to questions far broader than it might be suited to. (E.g. How do w…

The Metaphysical Club is an excellent book about how the pragmatists shaped all of American thought, too.

Obviously doesn’t replace reading the source material but it does articulate how ideas become encoded into a society.

Re: "Are We Automata?" by William James (1879)

#20

1879 These arguments aren't new. This is good argument for why tech/science/stem need to read history, or 'older' science history. To at least be familiar with the science that has come before, either to know what was discarded, to be familiar with past dead ends, or forgotten knowledge that could still have value. A lot of the AI spurred arguments in the last year seem like so much re-hashing since they were being d…

> These arguments aren't new.

True; the 1768-1774 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaquet-Droz_automata were implemented specifically because writing, music, and art were at the time accomplishments that distinguished upper classes from lower.

(their biggest weakness is that being analogue instead of digital, their programming is very sensitive to environmental changes)

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