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Age verification is incompatible with the internet

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Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#61

Post by stjohnswarts »

o11c wrote: post #28
betaby wrote: post #19

Kids can purchase unrestricted amount of sugar drinks and ruin their health for the rest of their lives. I insist government implements age verification for soda purchases. All sodas must be accessible to 21+ years only.

This, but unironically. ... though it probably shouldn't use the same age cutoff as beer. 18 or even 15 would be better. The downside is that - even with mild enforcement - fast food would get even more expensive for people who buy the cheap items which are currently subsidized by drinks.

Where does it stop next? Government telling us that we can't have our small piece of chocolate until we eat all our veggies and Mediterranean menu diet guide?

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#62

Post by bee_rider »

gary_0 wrote: post #41
bee_rider wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sorts of features shouldn’t be mandatory, if parents want to lock down their kids’ devices they can go find and buy the ones that support that sort of thing. Or install aftermarket software. This is already the way it works. Also underage people could go to the store and lie about their age, so if we want this plan to be effective we’d need to ID everybody buying electronics, which would be annoying. It also is…

My point wasn't that this should be done, just that it's a more viable option if moral busybody legislators actually want to legally restrict children's access to adult content instead of finding creative ways of harassing Pornhub. Obviously porn blocking should just be something parents should concern themselves with, and parents alone. Software and device vendors already provide all the necessary tools.

I think it isn’t a very viable option. I understand the logic of saying to them “here’s a more effective solution, which you would have suggested if you were operating in good faith,” but I think that your solution wouldn’t work, which causes the whole argument to unravel.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#63

Post by II2II »

JohnMakin wrote: post #4

Parents and caretakers have the ability to restrict children’s content on any device a child has access to. The burden should be on them to ensure their child is not consuming porn. It shouldn’t be everyone else’s problem that people are unwilling to parent their children.

> It shouldn't be everyone else's problem that people are unwilling to parent their children.

There would be legal consequences if a child were to walk into a store and purchased age restricted products. It is because others are not allowed to interfere with the parenting of children. (Some, albeit not all, age restricted products allow for parental discretion rather than being an outright prohibition.) There are also other ways of looking at this, such as protecting vulnerable populations from exploitation. (Such as the sale of addictive substances like alcohol and tobacco to minors.)

I would consider framing the issue as offloading parental responsibilities onto society as disingenuous at best.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#64

Post by stjohnswarts »

huytersd wrote: post #38

South Korea has been doing it for years. To get on the internet, you need to sign in with your ID.

Sounds like fascism to me. More like what N. Korea does, you'd think that S. Korea would be averse to adding more fascism to their lives rather than less.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#65

Post by gary_0 »

baby_souffle wrote: post #42
gary_0 wrote: post #17

This should not be that hard. How about: - At point of purchase for a consumer device that can view Internet content, the salesperson (or web store) is required to ask if the device is for an underage child, in which case either the device is placed in "child safe" mode, or printed instructions are directly provided giving instructions to do such. The child protection settings should be linked to the parent's e-mail…

Couldn’t a proxy just bypass this filter? Just as with the “you must be at least 18 to view this site, only click ok if you’re at least 18” popups, I’m pretty sure a smart 17 year old could figure out that notpornhub.com silently drops the special filter tag but is otherwise identical to pornhub.com

And a VPN bypasses these age-verification restrictions some states are adding. And kids find ways of buying alcohol too (when I was in high school eons ago, just about everyone was underage drinking, and a lot of my friends had porno mags too).

Fortunately, most democratic countries will be constitutionally prevented from enacting full-blown police states to stop kids from doing naughty things. Hopefully.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#66

Post by betaby »

o11c wrote: post #28
betaby wrote: post #19

Kids can purchase unrestricted amount of sugar drinks and ruin their health for the rest of their lives. I insist government implements age verification for soda purchases. All sodas must be accessible to 21+ years only.

This, but unironically. ... though it probably shouldn't use the same age cutoff as beer. 18 or even 15 would be better. The downside is that - even with mild enforcement - fast food would get even more expensive for people who buy the cheap items which are currently subsidized by drinks.

It's an ironic reply but I genuinely believe that people abuse on sugar and regulation is required. Small taxes are not enough of a detriment.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#67

Post by anon291 »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #60
gary_0 wrote: post #17

This should not be that hard. How about: - At point of purchase for a consumer device that can view Internet content, the salesperson (or web store) is required to ask if the device is for an underage child, in which case either the device is placed in "child safe" mode, or printed instructions are directly provided giving instructions to do such. The child protection settings should be linked to the parent's e-mail…

> the salesperson (or web store) is required to ask if the device is for an underage child Is there a penalty if they don't? Is there a penalty if an adult lies? Is there a penalty if an underage person pretends to be an adult?

Why is it any different than alcohol? Typically the penalty is banning sales at that store.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#68

Post by bee_rider »

usrusr wrote: post #26

Something like that parody of printed manual check copy protection on the original Larry game might actually work? Years later I had a huge "oh, so that's the answer!" moment when I finally discovered the meaning of the words agent orange. Jokes aside, what would be the failure mode if some metadata about audience minimum age was given legal blessing? Regular browsers would simply ignore it, browsers with enabled par…

I disagree with the idea of censorship generally, but it would be extremely funny if this was implemented and we could all just start tagging all our (totally mundane) content as adult-only. Imagine, a whole parallel internet free of busybodies and their children.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#69

Post by gary_0 »

bee_rider wrote: post #62
gary_0 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point wasn't that this should be done, just that it's a more viable option if moral busybody legislators actually want to legally restrict children's access to adult content instead of finding creative ways of harassing Pornhub. Obviously porn blocking should just be something parents should concern themselves with, and parents alone. Software and device vendors already provide all the necessary tools.

I think it isn’t a very viable option. I understand the logic of saying to them “here’s a more effective solution, which you would have suggested if you were operating in good faith,” but I think that your solution wouldn’t work, which causes the whole argument to unravel.

iPhones are pretty locked down, and stand a good chance of allowing parents to totally block adult content. Android and general-purpose computers less so, naturally.

But VPNs have already come up as the way around these new age-verification laws, and that didn't stop them. Kids can always find ways around this stuff (when I was in high school eons ago, just about everyone was underage drinking, and a lot of my friends had porno mags too).

Fortunately, most democratic countries will be constitutionally prevented from enacting full-blown police states to stop kids from doing naughty things. Hopefully.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#70

Post by johannes1234321 »

usrusr wrote: post #26

Something like that parody of printed manual check copy protection on the original Larry game might actually work? Years later I had a huge "oh, so that's the answer!" moment when I finally discovered the meaning of the words agent orange. Jokes aside, what would be the failure mode if some metadata about audience minimum age was given legal blessing? Regular browsers would simply ignore it, browsers with enabled par…

> What am I missing?

You are missing, that many people in that space don't want to solve that specific problem

* Some companies and their lobbies want to sell their products for filtering or whatever

* Some people want to get rid of all sinful porn

* Some want to block a lot more content for more people and need infrastructure

* Some want to have further control

Etc. "protecting the children" is often a good way to denounce opponents

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