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Age verification is incompatible with the internet

jonaharagon.com

31–40 of 161 posts

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#31

There are valid complaints to the idea being challenged, but it absolutely can be done technically and through legislation enforcing technical controls. Sophisticated users will use VPNs if they want to evade geoblocks, your average person won't (and any business that attempts to help them will be met with a legal hammer), and digital IDs are both reasonable and feasible to deploy at nation scale. Should it be used t…

We talk about legislative solutions as if they exist in a bubble. Like there’s some idealized body of completely rational actors who will deliberately evaluate all the features of an issue and make a decision that will benefit everyone in aggregate. This is not how legislatures work. They are filled with imperfect humans who rarely have technical training. They should not be making decisions in a bubble.

In theory you could implement age based access controls, but as the article points out, these are full of tradeoffs, and none of them are good. You will either get vendor lock in, violations of constitutional rights, a wider dispersal of Personally identifiable information, or a poorly thought through government implemented solution whose only feedback is additional legislation.

Parental desires to prevent children from seeing inappropriate content is not strictly opposed to individual free speech rights, the need for dynamism and open competition in the marketplace, or a need for privacy and information security. To say these issues need to be balanced would be a false dichotomy. Perhaps the solution is for society to respect parents by giving them the resources they need, through paid parental leave and employment protections.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#32

There are valid complaints to the idea being challenged, but it absolutely can be done technically and through legislation enforcing technical controls. Sophisticated users will use VPNs if they want to evade geoblocks, your average person won't (and any business that attempts to help them will be met with a legal hammer), and digital IDs are both reasonable and feasible to deploy at nation scale. Should it be used t…

We talk about legislative solutions as if they exist in a bubble. Like there’s some idealized body of completely rational actors who will deliberately evaluate all the features of an issue and make a decision that will benefit everyone in aggregate. This is not how legislatures work. They are filled with imperfect humans who rarely have technical training. They should not be making decisions in a bubble. In theory yo…

[deleted]

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#33
post #17

This should not be that hard. How about: - At point of purchase for a consumer device that can view Internet content, the salesperson (or web store) is required to ask if the device is for an underage child, in which case either the device is placed in "child safe" mode, or printed instructions are directly provided giving instructions to do such. The child protection settings should be linked to the parent's e-mail…

These sorts of features shouldn’t be mandatory, if parents want to lock down their kids’ devices they can go find and buy the ones that support that sort of thing. Or install aftermarket software. This is already the way it works.

Also underage people could go to the store and lie about their age, so if we want this plan to be effective we’d need to ID everybody buying electronics, which would be annoying.

It also isn’t clear what it means for a device to be “for somebody,” if somebody buys a desktop and a kid lives in their house, it is at least possible that the kid will get access to it.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#34
post #17

This should not be that hard. How about: - At point of purchase for a consumer device that can view Internet content, the salesperson (or web store) is required to ask if the device is for an underage child, in which case either the device is placed in "child safe" mode, or printed instructions are directly provided giving instructions to do such. The child protection settings should be linked to the parent's e-mail…

> in which case either the device is placed in "child safe" mode, or printed instructions are directly provided giving instructions to do such

It's not hard to imagine a jailbreak showing up shortly to defeat it. Even Apple can't prevent jail breaking for their devices. I think it's unreasonable to expect other consumer devices manufacturers to win a game of cats and mouses like that.

Requiring legislations on this is even worse. It will serve as a regulatory capture for big corps that can afford to invest on security.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#35
post #24
post #17

This should not be that hard. How about: - At point of purchase for a consumer device that can view Internet content, the salesperson (or web store) is required to ask if the device is for an underage child, in which case either the device is placed in "child safe" mode, or printed instructions are directly provided giving instructions to do such. The child protection settings should be linked to the parent's e-mail…

> Adult sites are required to list themselves as such so they can be filtered (they already do this quite voluntarily). There's actually a meta tag that most adult sites set to do this already. It's also used by Google to identify a website as adult for SafeSearch reasons. The process seems simple enough, https://www.rtalabel.org/index.html?content=howto (meta tag) and https://www.rtalabel.org/index.html?content=howt…

I'm sure that there are browser extensions that use that meta tag. There is no shortage of software options for blocking adult content.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#36

Parents and caretakers have the ability to restrict children’s content on any device a child has access to. The burden should be on them to ensure their child is not consuming porn. It shouldn’t be everyone else’s problem that people are unwilling to parent their children.

Blacklist-based parental controls are a major failure in a world where there's no enforcement against sites that fail to set the appropriate headers.

Even whitelist-based parental controls aren't great given what's accessible on major sites that accept user-generated content.

There absolutely is a real problem here - too-early exposure to sex is one of the biggest drivers of sex offenders.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#37
post #28
post #19

Kids can purchase unrestricted amount of sugar drinks and ruin their health for the rest of their lives. I insist government implements age verification for soda purchases. All sodas must be accessible to 21+ years only.

This, but unironically. ... though it probably shouldn't use the same age cutoff as beer. 18 or even 15 would be better. The downside is that - even with mild enforcement - fast food would get even more expensive for people who buy the cheap items which are currently subsidized by drinks.

I feel like a lot of the comments here are said ironically but would actually be wonderful for much of society.

Very tired of the libertarian arguments when they obviously don't work.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#39
post #17

This should not be that hard. How about: - At point of purchase for a consumer device that can view Internet content, the salesperson (or web store) is required to ask if the device is for an underage child, in which case either the device is placed in "child safe" mode, or printed instructions are directly provided giving instructions to do such. The child protection settings should be linked to the parent's e-mail…

This means disabling any means of downloading custom software for the under 18, right? Forget coding if you are under 18, because all of that would be so simple to bypass unless you completely lock it all.

Games and everything need to be vetted when you are 17? Since if you allow them any kid could also download a custom browser as well to get past that, and if there is a way, this info will be shared amongst kids.

Re: Age verification is incompatible with the internet

#40
post #19

Kids can purchase unrestricted amount of sugar drinks and ruin their health for the rest of their lives. I insist government implements age verification for soda purchases. All sodas must be accessible to 21+ years only.

That’s a pretty good idea. I’m all for age restrictions on even more things. I think you shouldn't be able to use social media or have a smart phone until you’re 18.
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