How Gyms Make Money (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: How Gyms Make Money (2015)

#11

Post by ozim » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 11:26 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #6

voisin wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s bizarre that consumers collectively agree to these terms. If I started a business that was this anti-customer, I would assume there would be zero customers willing to take that deal. Moreover, why hasn’t anyone introduced a brand that doesn’t have all these awful features?

I think that most people simply don't read contracts before signing them. They go by what the sales pitch says, and sales pitches are almost never honest and complete. > why hasn’t anyone introduced a brand that doesn’t have all these awful features? There are, at least in my part of the country, a lot of gyms that don't behave this way -- but you have to actually read the contract to know if that's the sort of gym y…

Usually what I understood from people was - they just didn’t read the contract.

Contract was for a year and then after a year you can cancel each month or at the end of a year period.

But people want to quit after 3 months or 6 months and then they post on socials how they got scammed.

In my life I had now 3 or 4 contracts and I trained usually like 3 or 4 years at each. Never had any issues canceling, just go to front desk make last payment, cancel use last month and done.

Re: How Gyms Make Money (2015)

#12

Post by rconti » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 11:28 PM UTC

voisin wrote: post #3

nickpsecurity wrote: post #2

There’s also tricks like requiring certified letters to cancel the membership. One I went to required two. You also paid a fee upfront that was like being there for half a year.

It’s bizarre that consumers collectively agree to these terms. If I started a business that was this anti-customer, I would assume there would be zero customers willing to take that deal. Moreover, why hasn’t anyone introduced a brand that doesn’t have all these awful features?

Because vanishingly few people want to pay the true per-visit costs of a gym. Most of them would rather be lured in by a low price and be subsidized by the 'suckers' locked into paying for a year.

Re: How Gyms Make Money (2015)

#13

Post by EarthLaunch » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 11:34 PM UTC

voisin wrote: post #3

nickpsecurity wrote: post #2

There’s also tricks like requiring certified letters to cancel the membership. One I went to required two. You also paid a fee upfront that was like being there for half a year.

It’s bizarre that consumers collectively agree to these terms. If I started a business that was this anti-customer, I would assume there would be zero customers willing to take that deal. Moreover, why hasn’t anyone introduced a brand that doesn’t have all these awful features?

I think it's because the scammy techniques allow lower apparent princes. People who shop by price will end up at the scammy gym. Maybe people are sensitive to price when it comes to gyms, and/or the true cost of a gym membership is too high for almost anyone.

People who don't want to admit the cost is too high are perfect targets because they also don't want to admit they will want to cancel in the future. I, uh, am talking about a friend of mine, of course.

Re: How Gyms Make Money (2015)

#14

Post by ravenstine » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 11:36 PM UTC

ben_jones wrote: post #7

voisin wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s bizarre that consumers collectively agree to these terms. If I started a business that was this anti-customer, I would assume there would be zero customers willing to take that deal. Moreover, why hasn’t anyone introduced a brand that doesn’t have all these awful features?

Popularity is an anti feature at the gym. Working adults have limited windows to workout and so once a gym gets affordable like 24hr fitness where seasonal sales at Costco make it VERY cheap it becomes a gym you might not actually want to work out in. Then you have the whole gym owner archetype which I won’t dive into but IMO exasperates the issue.

Mega-gyms are pretty terrible. I've never been to a 24 Hour Fitness, LA Fitness, or Gold's Gym that wasn't a sea of equipment hoggers, broken machines, random dirty towels, occupied lockers, and screens with CNN or daytime TV on. What's even more strange is how willing people are to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for an Equinox membership. The rationale is that paying that much upfront keeps you motivated to make your payment worthwhile, but both people I know who've made this mistake ended up going only a few times before giving up.

Smaller neighorhood gyms are so much better, let you cancel any time, and don't make you talk to a sales-bro when signing up.

Re: How Gyms Make Money (2015)

#15

Post by quickthrower2 » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 11:39 PM UTC

Any gym owners can chime in? My local gym seemed pretty normal this January so far (but I am in Australia where many people book their holidays during forced shutdown periods).

Also the gym seems to have the same pricing whenever except sometimes there is “no joining fee” which is a weird thing to me but hey?

My gym is independent.

A famous world brand of gym I used to belong to seemed to make their money by making it very hard to leave (contract, and when the contract runs out hard to get through to the right person, and combined with uncancelable direct debits in Australia) it was a pain to quit. It that might be the DD that made me just close the bank account.

Re: How Gyms Make Money (2015)

#16

Post by taftster » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 11:41 PM UTC

voisin wrote: post #3

nickpsecurity wrote: post #2

There’s also tricks like requiring certified letters to cancel the membership. One I went to required two. You also paid a fee upfront that was like being there for half a year.

It’s bizarre that consumers collectively agree to these terms. If I started a business that was this anti-customer, I would assume there would be zero customers willing to take that deal. Moreover, why hasn’t anyone introduced a brand that doesn’t have all these awful features?

Because you are ready to purchase and presumably make your life better? It's not like you're going to read the contract, see that the only way out is to send a certified letter or cancel in person, and think, "Nah, I'm going to take my business down the street."

Re: How Gyms Make Money (2015)

#17

Post by quickthrower2 » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 11:41 PM UTC

verbify wrote: post #5

Agree with the general economics, but this caught my eye: > a gym customer needs quite a bit more space compared to the retail customers in the rest of the high street Where I live, the two gyms nearest to me are not on a high street - they are effectively in residential areas, which I believe has lower rents. The gyms that are on the high street are 'super gyms' that are significantly more expensive.

I have seen “high street” gyms use office space and even basement space. While being a short minute walk from the high street. My current gym is upstairs. Upstairs entry is not something most shops want (unless you are niche maybe like a wedding shop). There are tricks to get lower rent.

Re: How Gyms Make Money (2015)

#18

Post by quickthrower2 » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 11:42 PM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #2

There’s also tricks like requiring certified letters to cancel the membership. One I went to required two. You also paid a fee upfront that was like being there for half a year.

FFs :-)

Re: How Gyms Make Money (2015)

#19

Post by theragra » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 11:42 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #12

voisin wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s bizarre that consumers collectively agree to these terms. If I started a business that was this anti-customer, I would assume there would be zero customers willing to take that deal. Moreover, why hasn’t anyone introduced a brand that doesn’t have all these awful features?

Because vanishingly few people want to pay the true per-visit costs of a gym. Most of them would rather be lured in by a low price and be subsidized by the 'suckers' locked into paying for a year.

This works for for people who live somewhere and go to the gym constantly. But God forbid you travel. I live in Europe, and in my town gym does not work in the way described in article. But when I went to the USA for two months, I had to sign a yearly contract with a trial and cancel it before the end of the trial.

Re: How Gyms Make Money (2015)

#20

Post by rebeccaskinner » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 11:45 PM UTC

voisin wrote: post #3

nickpsecurity wrote: post #2

There’s also tricks like requiring certified letters to cancel the membership. One I went to required two. You also paid a fee upfront that was like being there for half a year.

It’s bizarre that consumers collectively agree to these terms. If I started a business that was this anti-customer, I would assume there would be zero customers willing to take that deal. Moreover, why hasn’t anyone introduced a brand that doesn’t have all these awful features?

I think a significant number of people at least enter into the agreement thinking it's a feature. Roughly:

  - Going to the gym sucks, and I don't want to go
  - I should force myself to go to the gym anyway
  - Gyms are expensive, and hard to cancel
  - The pain and shame of canceling, combined with ongoing cost, will be a motivator for me to actually go to the gym

In short, I think a lot of people erroneously believe that locking themselves into the contract will motivate them. Instead, they end up still not going and also paying because of the contract.