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In Europe, trains are full, and more are on the way

nytimes.com

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Re: In Europe, trains are full, and more are on the way

#41

Post by ericmay »

scott_w wrote: post #32
muspimerol wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scale of the country is an excuse in many cases. There are densely populated areas in many parts of the USA, but nearly all of Europe is densely populated. The EU has an average density of 112 people per square km compared to 36 in the USA. The USA still can and should do better, but there are important geographical differences to the EU. And as an aside, I don't think many Europeans are taking the train from Mad…

> The EU has an average density of 112 people per square km compared to 36 in the USA. Isn't that a misleading statistic, though? It's not like the USA is an evenly spread wasteland in comparison to Continental Europe. It's more like pockets of high population density throughout, which trains can handle perfectly well. Russia and Ukraine are similar in that they're pockets of cities separated by miles of steppe. Both…

Yep, it's misleading. The America is big argument fails to hold water once you actually take a look at a map. Take Columbus for example where we're within just a couple hours by train (could be less if we had any sort of seriousness about our country) away from:

  Chicago
  Detroit
  Cleveland
  Cincinnati 
  Indianapolis
  Pittsburgh
and maybe just a few hours away from other cities like Toronto, Buffalo, Louisville, and more.

Re: In Europe, trains are full, and more are on the way

#42

Post by layer8 »

enaaem wrote: post #31
layer8 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has it easier in terms of network topology. Compare https://keikaku-japan.com/sites/default/files/uploads/map-jr... with https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Bahnstre... , and the fact that the latter isn’t an island.

Distances on a square are shorter on average for the same area of land.

Network topology is independent of euclidian distance.

Re: In Europe, trains are full, and more are on the way

#43

Post by cynicalsecurity »

DrDroop wrote: post #27

Sorry to burst your bubble but the trains in western Europe are a transport mode that caters to a specific class of people, mainly urban well educated people that work for in government, academia or for big corporations. I would occasionally take a train to go to a conference if the venue is close to the station otherwise it is just not practical.

[flagged]

Re: In Europe, trains are full, and more are on the way

#44

Post by [deleted] »

scott_w wrote: post #32
muspimerol wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scale of the country is an excuse in many cases. There are densely populated areas in many parts of the USA, but nearly all of Europe is densely populated. The EU has an average density of 112 people per square km compared to 36 in the USA. The USA still can and should do better, but there are important geographical differences to the EU. And as an aside, I don't think many Europeans are taking the train from Mad…

> The EU has an average density of 112 people per square km compared to 36 in the USA. Isn't that a misleading statistic, though? It's not like the USA is an evenly spread wasteland in comparison to Continental Europe. It's more like pockets of high population density throughout, which trains can handle perfectly well. Russia and Ukraine are similar in that they're pockets of cities separated by miles of steppe. Both…

[deleted]

Re: In Europe, trains are full, and more are on the way

#45

Post by lormayna »

In Italy the high speed trains literally killed the internal flights. Moving between the major cities is cheaper and more comfortable by train and the time spent on the train is the same if you consider security controls, boarding and the fact that airports are usually outside the city center. Let's wait that the tunnel under the Alps will be ready and we can have fast trains also between Milano and Paris (5 hours).

Re: In Europe, trains are full, and more are on the way

#46

Post by ikesau »

GrumpySloth wrote: post #26

> Amid concerns about climate change, demand for rail service is strong This attempt at spinning it as people being motivated to use trains out of concern for the climate is hilarious. Almost nobody thinks like that. Trains are just a hell of a lot more convenient than alternative modes of transport for long distance trips.

The article is citing Alberto Mazzola, the executive director of the CER. He says that reduced emissions and price are driving the rise in demand. Clearly he's not impartial here, but I'd trust him to be forthright about these reasons.

Re: In Europe, trains are full, and more are on the way

#47

Post by dewey »

cassepipe wrote: post #40
k__ wrote: post #3

Trains are pretty awesome, especially in small Europe. Flying always comes with security hassle. A train is just: get in/get out. If Europe would just spent more money on infrastructure. We have trains in Germany that can do 350km/h but I've yet to ride one that goes faster than 200, probably because the rails aren't what they're used to be. Then we have the Germany Ticket. A 50€/month subscription to all regional tr…

Aren't plane just as often late ? My hypothesis is that planes are just as often late but people complain less because : 1. They have already taken the whole day because getting to the airport, booking, security... so they don't care as much about a two hours delay. 2. They have some respect for the fact that we are allow to fly and see that as big technical challenge depending on weather and good security practices.…

Not if you are comparing to Deutsche Bahn. Where in the last months only 52% of long distance trains were on time:

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-november-train-punctuality-wor...

Re: In Europe, trains are full, and more are on the way

#49

Post by GrumpySloth »

kristiandupont wrote: post #38
GrumpySloth wrote: post #26

> Amid concerns about climate change, demand for rail service is strong This attempt at spinning it as people being motivated to use trains out of concern for the climate is hilarious. Almost nobody thinks like that. Trains are just a hell of a lot more convenient than alternative modes of transport for long distance trips.

>Almost nobody thinks like that. I have no data but I personally think like that and I have had conversations with friends who think like that. Why do you think demand is increasing then -- the convenience you mention isn't new?

The convenience is very much new. 15 years ago in Poland it was completely normal for a train to have multi-hour delays. Now it’s not, and the trains are getting a lot faster. E.g. currently it takes 2h-2h 22m to go from Warsaw to Gdańsk. In 2016 it used to take 3h. 15-20 years ago it could take half a day or longer.

Re: In Europe, trains are full, and more are on the way

#50

Post by ajuc »

scott_w wrote: post #32
muspimerol wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scale of the country is an excuse in many cases. There are densely populated areas in many parts of the USA, but nearly all of Europe is densely populated. The EU has an average density of 112 people per square km compared to 36 in the USA. The USA still can and should do better, but there are important geographical differences to the EU. And as an aside, I don't think many Europeans are taking the train from Mad…

> The EU has an average density of 112 people per square km compared to 36 in the USA. Isn't that a misleading statistic, though? It's not like the USA is an evenly spread wasteland in comparison to Continental Europe. It's more like pockets of high population density throughout, which trains can handle perfectly well. Russia and Ukraine are similar in that they're pockets of cities separated by miles of steppe. Both…

Yes, it's not population density that's important but the distribution of said population, and USA is more urbanized and clumped up than many European countries with much better train system than USA.

The problem in USA is that the people making the decisions don't live in the cities.

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