Live data from Hacker News

If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

scholar.harvard.edu

41–50 of 68 posts

Re: If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

#41
post #3

Conclusion: > Money can buy many, if not most, if not all of the things that make people happy, and if it doesn’t, then the fault is ours. Is that a grammatically sound sentence?

Seems it's two sentences that have been unnecessarily merged with ", and".

see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_clause_structure#Comp...

eg "Jack fell down ... and Jill came tumbling after"

Re: If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

#42
I came across this paper a decade plus ago and it stuck with me. Specifically, there were a few things:

1. We derive pleasure from anticipation, so ensure there are a number of things to look forward to.

2. Likewise we derive pleasure from looking backwards -- so the above is a two-for-one.

3. When making decisions in realtime, we tend to slip into "reptile-thinking" and that in turn leads to unhappy-decisions. They cite a snickers bar versus an apple. So try to make more decisions upfront, aligning them with your goals. e.g. bulk cook versus figure out lunch daily.

4. Day-to-day life has a huge impact on our happiness but we often architect it in ways that make us unhappy. e.g. moving into a big house in the burbs and therefore having a long commute. Think about our goals and design daily life so they flow more readily.

Edit to add my own twist on the paper and a challenge:

If you're so smart, why aren't you happy?

Re: If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

#43

I roughly agree with all the recommendations in the abstract, but I think 5 should come with a warning. For all the spendthrifts out there who live paycheck to paycheck, there are savers who go to the other extreme, and that ascetic frugality is hard to grow out of even when it's no longer needed. The best way around this I've found is to give to charity early in the year, and for whatever reason that somehow makes i…

What does "no longer needed" mean? I think most people who encourage the exchange of money for 'happiness' don't fully grasp the subjectivity of this judgement.

A person's preferred strategy for expending and conserving resources is an emotionally-charged choice. Who am I to say anything about their choices?

Re: If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

#44

I think the first part of this misses the point of both money and happiness. The ultimate goal of any life form we are aware of here on Earth is proliferation of the genes it carries, whether that be by individual longevity, reproduction, or longevity and reproduction of closely-related individuals that carry the same genes. Emotions seem to have evolved as a means of motivating behavior toward better adaptive fitnes…

IMHO you're oversimplifying it. The drastic decline in fertility rates in the developed world runs counter to the idea that humans are merely yet another animal that exists to spread their genes. I also don't buy the idea that we're stuck in some endless loop to acquire money or stuff either. There are plenty of people in the FIRE community that have found 'enough' and are content to simply live out their lives doing…

> Some part of us instinctively understands that happiness isn't the point and can itself be counterproductive because we need some amount of unhappiness to stay motivated to do what we are actually here to do, which isn't be happy.

I don't think they are saying we're stuck in some endless loop to specifically acquire money or stuff, but that we are stuck in an endless loop to do something, whatever it may be. This could mean acquiring stuff for some, volunteering and donating for some, baking pastries or going fishing for others.

Decline in fertility rates can be attributed to external causes, not because humans fundamentally no longer want to procreate.

Re: If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diagram it and find out

Now you all have nerd sniped me. The question of whether a sentence be grammatical equivales the existence of a parse tree which, when linearised, yields the original sentence. Because the sentence is finite, it has a finite number of components, and hence a finite number of possible parse trees, so we could enumerate them all until we find one that works. Exercise: what is the maximum number of parse trees a sentenc…

QEF? Don't you mean QED?

Re: If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO you're oversimplifying it. The drastic decline in fertility rates in the developed world runs counter to the idea that humans are merely yet another animal that exists to spread their genes. I also don't buy the idea that we're stuck in some endless loop to acquire money or stuff either. There are plenty of people in the FIRE community that have found 'enough' and are content to simply live out their lives doing…

>I also don't buy the idea that we're stuck in some endless loop to acquire money or stuff either. Does anyone argue this idea? If so then why do people like the Amish exist? They seem pretty happy to me, with little. Maybe I am naive, but do Amish typically worry about money and about materialistic things?

Very true, the Amish lifestyle alone debunks most of the telling above as heavily skewed. Implying certain society values and a way of thinking as natural or god-given, while in fact it only summarizes, whats currently pretty famous as western lifestyle.

> Maybe I am naive, but do Amish typically worry about money and about materialistic things?

Imho everyone worries about materialistic things to a certain degree, as a potatoe for example is very materialistic thing and we cannot eat virtual goods (yet). The potatoe example can also be used illustrate another aspect - all materialistic things will decay over time, thus naturally ppl would not hoard tons of goods beside what they need for themselves or for trading for other goods (which will also decay, so it makes no sense to overly hoard traded goods either).

This did not change much throughout history. Also there was only one outstanding exception to that naturalistic equilibrium - land. Even old bronze age societies already fought for fertile land as thats the very base to sustain life and furthermore it provides access to other resources like ore and such, that we learned to process into other goods. So history tells us - yes thats possible, also the Amish kinda still live in that tradition.

What really changed that almost-equilibrium was the invention of the modern money with the bank system. The big difference now is, that this virtual good "money" does not decay naturally (given the economy is stable). Instead the system even boost itself by constantly creating more money de-valuating itself. Most of us love to see the numbers increasing, because we tend to believe we can buy more things from that. But later we realize that goods just get a higher price tag instead (inflation), which furthr boost the money hunger.

Here we are - the big hoarding tendency in western societies has a lot to do with our money system.

Re: If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

#47
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't really a clear separation between the two. People can experience physical things exactly the same as an activity or a vacation.

One big difference is that physical things exact an on-going tax since you have to store them in your house and maintain them. Hence the "does it spark joy?" question. That said, the up-side is that physical goods can provide on-going benefit. For example, I love my AirPods Pro - they bring me joy every day.

So you bought an ongoing experience instead of a one-time experience.

Seems like the objects enable experiences. However, due to hedonic adaptation, you might get less value out of those daily experiences over time.

- collectible? one-time novelty object but possible ongoing "look at my things" experience

- tech item? possibly ongoing experiences

- status symbol? ongoing experience getting admiration of people that care about such things

- sharp reliable chisel? ongoing experience every time you partake in your creative hobby

- travel itinerary? one-time period of experiences but ongoing photographs, stories and memories

It's not clear cut at all, in my opinion, the delineation between experiences and things.

Re: If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

#48

I came across this paper a decade plus ago and it stuck with me. Specifically, there were a few things: 1. We derive pleasure from anticipation, so ensure there are a number of things to look forward to. 2. Likewise we derive pleasure from looking backwards -- so the above is a two-for-one. 3. When making decisions in realtime, we tend to slip into "reptile-thinking" and that in turn leads to unhappy-decisions. They…

I wholeheartedly concur with the gist of this sentiment.

An example from my own life.

I’m an avid coffee drinker, and consume 2 doppio espressos a day.

I’m often asked why I don’t just buy an espresso machine and save some money.

To which I respond: - I look forward to the small interactions when I order coffee - I build a sense of community where I live/work - I enjoy the opportunity to tip and give back( albeit in a very small way) - I’m buying something I like everyday, and this leads to a sense of fulfillment - I don’t accumulate anything that I need to lug around/maintain

Re: If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty deeply nested, which may be technically correct but is not recommended. It also may be missing a second comma? Not sure... > Money can buy many, if not most, if not all, of the things that make people happy, and if it doesn’t, then the fault is ours. Maybe a parenthetical clause? > Money can buy many (if not most, if not all) of the things that make people happy, and if it doesn’t, then the fault is ours.

What about Money can buy most, if not all of the things that make … ?

Agree it's an improvement. I still think a trailing comma is required...

> Money can buy most, if not all of the things that make...

> Money can buy most, if not all, of the things that make...

Re: If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right [pdf]

#50
post #43

I roughly agree with all the recommendations in the abstract, but I think 5 should come with a warning. For all the spendthrifts out there who live paycheck to paycheck, there are savers who go to the other extreme, and that ascetic frugality is hard to grow out of even when it's no longer needed. The best way around this I've found is to give to charity early in the year, and for whatever reason that somehow makes i…

What does "no longer needed" mean? I think most people who encourage the exchange of money for 'happiness' don't fully grasp the subjectivity of this judgement. A person's preferred strategy for expending and conserving resources is an emotionally-charged choice. Who am I to say anything about their choices?

When i say it's 'no longer needed' I'm talking about behaviors which were previously useful for survival that have out grown their usefulness.

There is a certain point where one crosses into being grossly over conservative with their spending. I'm not casting any judgements of course, but when you reach that point you should probably stop and draft a will defining what should happen with your money. If you're unwilling to either spend it or give it away in life, know that it will either be spent or given away for you in death.

Post reply on HN