Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food • Hacker News Board

Re: Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food

#141

Post by siliconc0w » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 5:53 PM UTC

throw10920 wrote: post #63

Hooray for Consumer Reports! They're one of the few truly independent (e.g. no paid sponsorships like you see on YouTube channels) product testing and review companies. I have a subscription to them and it's served me well, and I hope they stick around for a while.

I'm for independent analysis/investigative journalism but this seems written to generate a certain result. All foods are below the guidelines but potentially any amount is unsafe? So any detectable level is bad? It's not clear what result would have been 'good news'.

Re: Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food

#142

Post by denverllc » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 5:56 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #128

agilob wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the canary of plastic pollution similar to we knew about global warming in '70s. We know it's only going to get worse, but we're happy to ignore it until it gets really bad.

Nearly 500 years ago, Paracelsus wrote "All things are poisonous and nothing is without poison; only the dose makes a thing not poisonous". He was correct then and he is still correct today, but we stubbornly refuse to accept the first law of toxicology. Broiling, frying and baking makes food more toxic. There's absolutely no getting away from that fact. As soon as you apply high heat to a food, you're performing a p…

> They are far too well-studied to hold any significant surprises

This statement is absurd. The vast majority of research is (1) funded by industry, (2) focused on how plastic can be used in industry, and (3) not focused on biological aspects.

The actual research on endocrine effects of plastics show it has a clear negative effect [0].

> EDCs are chemicals that disturb the body’s hormone systems and can cause cancer, diabetes, reproductive disorders, and neurological impairments of developing fetuses and children. The report describes a wealth of evidence supporting direct cause-and-effect links between the toxic chemical additives in plastics and specific health impacts to the endocrine system.

[0] https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/p...

Re: Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food

#143

Post by jldugger » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 5:56 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #53

When it's foods contaminating plastic then we'll really know it's bad.

Food? Try blood[1].

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/17/dark-w...

Re: Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food

#144

Post by jodrellblank » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 5:57 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #47

chiefalchemist wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These plastics are going to follow tobacco and alcohol. First, don't worry about it... Then, some is ok... Wait! Less than some is ok... Wait again!! Next to nothing is ok... Fuck!!! Avoid this shit at all costs.

> These plastics are going to follow tobacco and alcohol. No. Demographics can show you with extremely small error bars the aggregate health effects of smoking and (heavy) drinking. If there was an effect of that magnitude from other variables, we'd know for sure. Microplastics and pthalates and other related contaminants are real, and deserve study. But let's not get ahead of ourselves with the doomerism. We surely…

> "No. Demographics can show you with extremely small error bars the aggregate health effects of smoking and (heavy) drinking. If there was an effect of that magnitude from other variables, we'd know for sure. Microplastics and pthalates and other related contaminants are real, and deserve study."

How can you be so confident that a) the effects would be so clear, and b) we'd know for sure the cause of those effects was microplastics?

We have an increase in early onset cancer, since the 1990s, more than can be explained by just earlier detection: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41571-022-00672-8

and "There is a mysterious epidemic of kidney disease called chronic kidney disease of unknown etiology (CKDu) that is occurring in many parts of the world. Unrelated to known risk factors such as diabetes and hypertension, CKDu mostly affects the young and middle-aged" - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8437007/

and "Driven principally by aging [...] For most of human history, Parkinson has been a rare disorder. However, demography and the by-products of industrialization have now created a Parkinson pandemic" - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30584159/

And the obvious ones like heart disease - if you can claim a group of diseases are caused by "old age" and another group by "obesity and bad diet" - would we know if microplastics were a cause, an exacerbator, a trigger?

Re: Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food

#145

Post by jdietrich » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 6:00 PM UTC

tessierashpool wrote: post #98

taeric wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All canned drinks are lined with plastics. I think all canned things, period, at this point.

nope, phthalate-free cans have been a selling point for a while now. standard for canned beans at Sprouts or Whole Foods

The Whole Foods cans are still plastic coated, they just market the fact that the coating is BPA free. Epoxy has historically been the predominant coating for canned food and drink products, which does contain BPA. Polyolefin dispersion coatings have been available for several years and are now widely used in jurisdictions that restrict BPA in food manufacturing; they are expected to become industry-standard within the next few years due to increasingly strict regulations.

To the best of my knowledge, all can coatings are phthalate free. I should also note that not all phthalates are created equal - terephthalates and trimellitates are of considerably less concern than ortho-phthalates.

Re: Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food

#146

Post by abeppu » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 6:02 PM UTC

SamuelAdams wrote: post #134

impalallama wrote: post #56

Direct link to article. https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-contaminants/the... > We found [phthalates] in all but one food (Polar raspberry lime seltzer). A very grim lol.

Let’s say we eventually get accurate measures of what is a healthy amount of plastics versus harmful amount. Let’s pretend the law is updated so that food manufacturers must limit the number of microplastics to a healthy level. Does that capability even exist? How can food manufacturers actually control microplastics in their products? The report said even canned products have microplastic, so I think it’s more than…

I think the issue with canned products is still mostly about the packaging; cans generally have a plastic lining/coating that is meant to prevent their contents from reacting with the metal. Unfortunately, this is also true of metal lids on glass jars. This is even true of the lids used for home canning!

I think the capability exists (we had cans and jars before we had these chemicals), but both industry norms and likely consumer expectations must shift. E.g. suppose you had new processes which could cool food in a sterile environment before filling cans -- then could cans do with an organic wax liner?

https://ekko.world/plastic-lining-on-beverage-food-cans/2267... https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/aussie-study-finds-ph...

Re: Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food

#147

Post by forward1 » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 6:02 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #127

rsanek wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"processed" is a term that exists on a spectrum, it's rare to find any food item outside of vegetables or nuts that is truly "unprocessed." In general, meat and dairy are not considered heavily processed. Most sources consider raw meat purchasable at grocery stores unprocessed.

Yeah and even then for nuts like cashews and almonds you have to remove the outer layer and wash them to remove the more bitter (or toxic) components. I would consider ground beef less processed than that, since it does not require a detox step (though it may be wise to cook it before consumption)

Ground beef is absolutely not "less processed" than nuts.

Processing means stuff being added and/or removed. Cows, or as they are euphamistically known as "beef", have all sorts of vitamins, growth hormones and other disgusting shit (often literally) added to their diet and bodies. It also has to be cooked, usually in oil, which generates even more Maillard reaction, and thus cancers, etc.

Almost all animal products can be considered ultra-high processed. It's on an entirely different level than whole fruits and vegetables.

Re: Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food

#148

Post by whoknowsidont » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 6:19 PM UTC

globular-toast wrote: post #93

achrono wrote: post #36

It's time to come up with what I'd call a Plastic Chain Index. For any given edible item, a very low plastic chain index implies that it would only have plastic inadvertently absorbed from the environment, whereas a high one would be e.g. those super hot French fries rolling in plastic. If you're optimistic, this will usher in easy measurement, widespread awareness and consumer enlightenment. But realistically, we wi…

What are super hot french fries rolling in plastic? You mean like ready meals that you heat up in plastic containers?

Almost all containers have at least a thin membrane of some type of on them. The "environmentally friendly" containers might largely be cardboard, but they definitely still have that coating/membrane.

Plastic or no, these coatings almost contain some type of PFAS. Which might be the larger underlying issue here.

Re: Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food

#149

Post by tootie » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 6:23 PM UTC

bsenftner wrote: post #71

throw10920 wrote: post #63

Hooray for Consumer Reports! They're one of the few truly independent (e.g. no paid sponsorships like you see on YouTube channels) product testing and review companies. I have a subscription to them and it's served me well, and I hope they stick around for a while.

Who else is there? Today's consumer protections for anything Internet related feels nonexistent. Who else is like Consumer Reports?

Wirecutter. They were acquired by the NY Times not too long ago. I also like America's Test Kitchen, but they only review kitchen products.

Re: Consumer Reports finds 'widespread' presence of plastics in food

#150

Post by ahipple » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 6:24 PM UTC

rsanek wrote: post #120

taeric wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All canned drinks are lined with plastics. I think all canned things, period, at this point.

Important to note there's a big difference in leeching between hot and cold items being put into contact with plastics.

Most canned foods are heated as part of the canning process, aren't they? There are a handful of things that intentionally contain live cultures -- yogurts, some sauerkrauts & similar -- but otherwise I'd expect almost any canned food to have been packed hot or heated in the container during canning in order to kill food-spoiling organisms.