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June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

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Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#111

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

heywoodlh wrote: post #78
thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, so is it okay to share RHEL sources back with the original project communities or not? If you share RHEL sources with the original project communities, what happens? >> Is there a single large FOSS project who’s git history isn’t filled with @redhat.com ? Does this give Red Hat the right to effectively "close source" the code for RHEL despite contributions from the rest of the community?

> Does this give Red Hat the right to effectively "close source" the code for RHEL despite contributions from the rest of the community? Legally, yes. Not sure what the point is you're trying to make. I'm not sure why anyone would want to use a downstream distribution of Red Hat if they don't like Red Hat's trajectory. If you don't like Red Hat's current objectives with RHEL, it should be as simple as: stop using som…

> Legally, yes. Not sure what the point is you're trying to make.

Legally, no; unless RH is the only copyright holder, they get to follow the same rules as everybody else, and for GPL packages that means not imposing additional restrictions on redistribution of source code.

> If you don't like Red Hat's current objectives with RHEL, it should be as simple as: stop using something downstream of RHEL.

People are fine with being a downstream of RHEL. It's being upstream of RHEL that's the problem; Stream is RHEL Beta by another name.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#112

Post by dissident_coder »

phpisthebest wrote: post #29
heywoodlh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that since Red Hat restricted the source availability for RHEL, Rocky is using the following loopholes to gain binary compatibility with RHEL: 1. Using OCI images of RHEL (i.e. on Docker Hub) 2. Using cloud server images of RHEL They outlined their plans for this in June of 2023[0]. Red Hat’s official stance is that downstream distros like Rocky or AlmaLinux should be basing off of CentOS Stream —…

I fail to see what separates Alma from CentOS Stream at this point The entire Propose of CentOS was Binary Compatibility with RHEL, largely for Vendor compliance reasons, if a vendor of a commercial software product validated RHEL 7 for their software running CentOS 7 was also supported Running CentOS Stream, or now Alma Linux would not be as their are no longer binary compatible with RHEL. the Hostility of IBM and R…

> I fail to see what separates Alma from CentOS Stream at this point

Alma is getting their source packages from CentoOS Stream, but they are using the specific versions that are in the Redhat releases they are targetting. They aren't just rebuilding Stream sources from HEAD.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#113

Post by dralley »

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #106
dralley wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analysis seems to be ignoring all of the work required to create and maintain the CentOS Stream / RHEL distribution in the first place, which is substantial. Prior to CentOS Stream, if you were a CentOS user or maintainer who experienced a bug, your only option was to file a bug on the RHEL bug tracker and wait for a Red Hat employee to fix it for you. It was the Android-esque "throw the code over the wall" mode…

>> Your analysis seems to be ignoring all of the work required to create and maintain the CentOS Stream / RHEL distribution in the first place, which is substantial. Substantial enough to effectively "close source" RHEL? Red Hat's changes ( https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hats-commitment-open-sour... ) effectively converted RHEL from a fully open source Linux distribution to "source available to paying customers o…

RHEL is not "effectively closed source" by any stretch of the imagination. The sources are available as CentOS Stream -- from which RHEL is built in the first place!! It is true that, in order to put together an exact copy of RHEL, you would need to do a bit of work to figure out exactly what versions RHEL uses, and specifically pick those versions out of CentOS Stream. It isn't as simple as downloading the entire tree of sources from a single git repository anymore. But that's not the same as "effectively closed source", either.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#114

Post by wkat4242 »

bluedino wrote: post #56

For better or for worse, this has caused a lot of software vendors to drop RHEL/CentOS support. Many have started to offer Ubuntu support in it's place. Most of them didn't even try to support stream. I'm not sure what the process behind that was. CentOS was free, which is why we used it. Sure, our SAP boxes run RHEL but the other stuff doesn't. We started moving a lot of stuff to Ubuntu as well. Now, Ubuntu is by no…

Yep unity too, they only support up to centos 7 and Ubuntu.

I don't really like using snaps for everything so this is a bit annoying. But at the moment I'm mainly devving for VR so i need to be on Windows anyway.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#115

Post by palemoonale »

bluedino wrote: post #56

For better or for worse, this has caused a lot of software vendors to drop RHEL/CentOS support. Many have started to offer Ubuntu support in it's place. Most of them didn't even try to support stream. I'm not sure what the process behind that was. CentOS was free, which is why we used it. Sure, our SAP boxes run RHEL but the other stuff doesn't. We started moving a lot of stuff to Ubuntu as well. Now, Ubuntu is by no…

Why not SAP on SLES? Its a defacto standard on both sides of the pond.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#116

Post by bluedino »

palemoonale wrote: post #115
bluedino wrote: post #56

For better or for worse, this has caused a lot of software vendors to drop RHEL/CentOS support. Many have started to offer Ubuntu support in it's place. Most of them didn't even try to support stream. I'm not sure what the process behind that was. CentOS was free, which is why we used it. Sure, our SAP boxes run RHEL but the other stuff doesn't. We started moving a lot of stuff to Ubuntu as well. Now, Ubuntu is by no…

Why not SAP on SLES? Its a defacto standard on both sides of the pond.

Because corporate is in bed with IBM? Not sure.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#117

Post by lpapez »

b112 wrote: post #69
bluedino wrote: post #56

For better or for worse, this has caused a lot of software vendors to drop RHEL/CentOS support. Many have started to offer Ubuntu support in it's place. Most of them didn't even try to support stream. I'm not sure what the process behind that was. CentOS was free, which is why we used it. Sure, our SAP boxes run RHEL but the other stuff doesn't. We started moving a lot of stuff to Ubuntu as well. Now, Ubuntu is by no…

I am always baffled by people using ubuntu because "free". I get the desire if you want the paid stream. EG, an alternative to Redhat or SuSE as a paid stream. But if you're going to use Ubuntu, why put up with the snaps, the commercialism, the app store, when you can just use debian? Every time I hear a reason why, it makes little sense to me. Even though 95% of Ubuntu is Debian, and Ubuntu wouldn't exist without De…

As a long time Ubuntu user, I figured I'd try Debian a month ago for the same reasons you listed. It's supposed to be 95% the same, so why not. Fresh install, my bluetooth headphones didn't work. Reverted back to Ubuntu and they worked right away.

That's my reason for using Ubuntu instead of Debian - I simply don't care enough to bother with these small things.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#118

Post by forkicks »

op00to wrote: post #76
bogwog wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, Redhat has to make money somehow, so this decision is understandable. RedHat has been making money for decades. The Centos rug pull was just a way to make more money at the expense of their users and the larger open source community. It is impossible to justify a rug pull. By definition, it is a hostile, one-sided, trust-destroying, and underhanded move.

Can you define a rug pull?

Promising to support an OS for 10 years then cutting that support to just 2 out of the blue?

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#119

Post by BSDobelix »

dylan604 wrote: post #86
BSDobelix wrote: post #53

This is really the time to make a decision, do you really need support..ehm sorry insurance? Then RedHat/Suse/Oracle if not, choose a trusted community distribution like Debian.

I am curious about what the expense of support gets you that a typical IT person could not find on some forum somewhere online.

That's why i wrote insurance, not insurance for the installation but your job position AKA someone else has to fix the problem ;)

Same as: No one gets fired for buying IBM (if your really old...like me)

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#120

Post by dralley »

tux1968 wrote: post #108
freedomben wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah Alma is a much better option if you care about the behavior and attitudes of the people behind the project. The Rocky people are antagonistic toward Red Hat and view them as somewhat an enemy (which seems so weird to me as without Red Hat, they couldn't possibly exist). They strictly want to take what Red Hat sells and rebuild and distribute it for free. The Alma people on the other hand view themselves as partn…

> They strictly want to take what Red Hat sells and rebuild and distribute it for free. I think this is an unfair framing. Rather, they want to take all the GPL source code that Red Hat is obligated to make available, and distribute it freely. They believe this is in accordance with both the law and the software license that Red Hat agreed to, when using it as a basis for their business in the first place. Personally…

All of the source code is already available, in CentOS Stream, from which RHEL is built in the first place.

What they want to do, is do an exact rebuild of RHEL without having to go through the effort of putting the distribution together themselves, matching the versions that are used in a particular version of RHEL against what is available via CentOS Stream.

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