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June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

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Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#41

Post by throw0101d »

heywoodlh wrote: post #37
phpisthebest wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see what separates Alma from CentOS Stream at this point The entire Propose of CentOS was Binary Compatibility with RHEL, largely for Vendor compliance reasons, if a vendor of a commercial software product validated RHEL 7 for their software running CentOS 7 was also supported Running CentOS Stream, or now Alma Linux would not be as their are no longer binary compatible with RHEL. the Hostility of IBM and R…

> I fail to see what separates Alma from CentOS Stream at this point I believe that AlmaLinux's approach is in-line with Red Hat's vision for downstream OS-es. Rocky's is not. I think a potential benefit to aligning with Red Hat's approach is that both AlmaLinux and Red Hat will be contributing fixes, improvements, etc. to CentOS Stream -- and any other OS-es that base off of CentOS Stream. And, nothing is preventing…

> I believe that AlmaLinux's approach is in-line with Red Hat's vision for downstream OS-es. Rocky's is not.

What is in-line with users' vision?

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#42

Post by heywoodlh »

indigodaddy wrote: post #33
phpisthebest wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see what separates Alma from CentOS Stream at this point The entire Propose of CentOS was Binary Compatibility with RHEL, largely for Vendor compliance reasons, if a vendor of a commercial software product validated RHEL 7 for their software running CentOS 7 was also supported Running CentOS Stream, or now Alma Linux would not be as their are no longer binary compatible with RHEL. the Hostility of IBM and R…

AFAIK, Alma has committed to continued full RHEL binary compatibility.

Incorrect, according to their FAQ[0] and the original article I linked[1]:

> What does ABI/binary compatible with RHEL mean?

> In July of 2023, we announced (opens new window) that we were shifting our goal from being a downstream rebuild of RHEL to maintaining ABI compatibility with RHEL. For the AlmaLinux team that means that everything from software applications to kernel modules that work on RHEL will work on AlmaLinux, and if they don't we would consider that a bug.

TL;DR: they are using CentOS Stream as their upstream.

EDIT: Sorry, you're correct -- I was thinking you meant their original goal of "bug-for-bug" compatibility with RHEL.

[0] https://wiki.almalinux.org/FAQ.html#what-does-abi-binary-com...

[1] https://almalinux.org/blog/future-of-almalinux/

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#43

Post by throw0101d »

indigodaddy wrote: post #33
phpisthebest wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see what separates Alma from CentOS Stream at this point The entire Propose of CentOS was Binary Compatibility with RHEL, largely for Vendor compliance reasons, if a vendor of a commercial software product validated RHEL 7 for their software running CentOS 7 was also supported Running CentOS Stream, or now Alma Linux would not be as their are no longer binary compatible with RHEL. the Hostility of IBM and R…

AFAIK, Alma has committed to continued full RHEL binary compatibility.

> For a typical user, this will mean very little change in your use of AlmaLinux. Red Hat-compatible applications will still be able to run on AlmaLinux OS, and your installs of AlmaLinux will continue to receive timely security updates. The most remarkable potential impact of the change is that we will no longer be held to the line of “bug-for-bug compatibility” with Red Hat, and that means that we can now accept bug fixes outside of Red Hat’s release cycle. While that means some AlmaLinux OS users may encounter bugs that are not in Red Hat, we may also accept patches for bugs that have not yet been accepted upstream, or shipped downstream.

* https://almalinux.org/blog/future-of-almalinux/

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#44

Post by chasil »

0x6c6f6c wrote: post #9
thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #5

Rocky Linux is a fine successor to CentOS and was created by one of the original founders of CentOS, Gregory Kurtzer. https://rockylinux.org/ https://rockylinux.org/about/ If you need enterprise support RHEL tends to be a default choice. If you cannot afford RHEL or do not need enterprise support, Rocky Linux fills the role that CentOS once did.

Another suitable option, which has handled the situation of Red Hat source RPM releases[1] quite a bit better imo, is Alma Linux. https://almalinux.org/ Similar goal, but is working more directly upstream with Red Hat[2] as opposed to the (as I last had read) undisclosed and non-open approach that Rocky Linux has taken. 1: https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/furthering-evolution-centos-s... 2: https://almalinux.org/blog/f…

As I understand it, Alma is following the stream release, which is slightly upstream and less stable than RHEL.

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/23/07/29/0214234/almalinux-...

Rocky and SUSE Liberty Linux aim to be bug-for-bug compatible with RHEL, which has become more difficult.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#45

Post by jasoneckert »

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #5

Rocky Linux is a fine successor to CentOS and was created by one of the original founders of CentOS, Gregory Kurtzer. https://rockylinux.org/ https://rockylinux.org/about/ If you need enterprise support RHEL tends to be a default choice. If you cannot afford RHEL or do not need enterprise support, Rocky Linux fills the role that CentOS once did.

If you can't justify the cost of RHEL for your use case, I believe Fedora would be the best alternative at this time since its development has not been affected by the changes recently made to CentOS, and it provides a near identical feature set.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#46

Post by dralley »

martinky24 wrote: post #24
behnamoh wrote: post #22

Well, Redhat has to make money somehow, so this decision is understandable. To me, open-source is about the open, transparent "culture" in which you commit to develop, not about putting things out there for free (as in free beer). Too many companies already benefiting from open-source packages (e.g., OpenCV) without giving anything back to the community.

"Acquire competitor, just to shut down competitor" is a pretty gross (and monopolistic) business practice. So that's a relatively crass way of looking at it.

>"Acquire competitor, just to shut down competitor"

There was 6 years in between those two events, and by all accounts CentOS got much better post-acquisition.

There is no "just" here. Originally it was considered a good idea, and (years) later they changed their minds.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#47

Post by bityard »

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #5

Rocky Linux is a fine successor to CentOS and was created by one of the original founders of CentOS, Gregory Kurtzer. https://rockylinux.org/ https://rockylinux.org/about/ If you need enterprise support RHEL tends to be a default choice. If you cannot afford RHEL or do not need enterprise support, Rocky Linux fills the role that CentOS once did.

Personally it would not be my first choice since I am somewhat allergic to anything with the word Oracle in it, but another option for those in the enterprise space might be Oracle Linux:

https://www.oracle.com/linux/

They claim full compatibility with RHEL and don't require a licence/login to download and install. And they offer paid support if you need it.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#48

Post by mrweasel »

phpisthebest wrote: post #29
heywoodlh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that since Red Hat restricted the source availability for RHEL, Rocky is using the following loopholes to gain binary compatibility with RHEL: 1. Using OCI images of RHEL (i.e. on Docker Hub) 2. Using cloud server images of RHEL They outlined their plans for this in June of 2023[0]. Red Hat’s official stance is that downstream distros like Rocky or AlmaLinux should be basing off of CentOS Stream —…

I fail to see what separates Alma from CentOS Stream at this point The entire Propose of CentOS was Binary Compatibility with RHEL, largely for Vendor compliance reasons, if a vendor of a commercial software product validated RHEL 7 for their software running CentOS 7 was also supported Running CentOS Stream, or now Alma Linux would not be as their are no longer binary compatible with RHEL. the Hostility of IBM and R…

> if you are running ERP Systems, LOB Apps, or other critical functions that measure their code life in decades

That's really what confuses me about the people who use CentOS or Rocky, they want or need the stability of RHEL, so that they can run these crucial applications, that mostly aren't cheap, yet they refuse to pay for the development of the operating system they run it them?

I really don't see the point in any of these clones, other than as an educational tool. I see the point in RHEL and while expensive, that's the price of developing this platform. You can buy SuSE, Ubuntu Pro or Oracle Linux, if you feel that RedHat is to expensive (perhaps not Oracle), but that's not what some people want, they specifically want RHEL, but for free.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#49

Post by dralley »

davweb wrote: post #19
meisel wrote: post #16

I don't know much about CentOS, but I've seen a lot of anger about the end of CentOS Linux, regardless of CentOS stream, Rocky, etc. . Can someone explain the history of this, why CentOS is going away, why it's being replaced with these new alternatives, and why many seem quite mad about it? Just curious to understand the state of it.

CentOS was created as open source distribution compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). It was successful as it gave most of the benefits of RHEL without the expense. RedHat acquired CentOS, saying that it would be good for CentOS[1]. RedHat shut CentOS down. New alternatives are coming along to take the role of a free distribution compatible with RHEL. [1]: https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/red-…

>RedHat acquired CentOS, saying that it would be good for CentOS[1].

>RedHat shut CentOS down.

It should be noted that six years passed between point A and point B, during which time Red Hat did invest quite a lot of additional resources in CentOS. Red Hat did not acquire CentOS and then immediately shut it down.

CentOS Stream is also not a wholly different thing from CentOS, although it is obviously not exactly the same thing.

Re: June 30th, 2024, will bring the End of Life (EOL) of CentOS Linux (2023)

#50

Post by freedomben »

0x6c6f6c wrote: post #9
thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #5

Rocky Linux is a fine successor to CentOS and was created by one of the original founders of CentOS, Gregory Kurtzer. https://rockylinux.org/ https://rockylinux.org/about/ If you need enterprise support RHEL tends to be a default choice. If you cannot afford RHEL or do not need enterprise support, Rocky Linux fills the role that CentOS once did.

Another suitable option, which has handled the situation of Red Hat source RPM releases[1] quite a bit better imo, is Alma Linux. https://almalinux.org/ Similar goal, but is working more directly upstream with Red Hat[2] as opposed to the (as I last had read) undisclosed and non-open approach that Rocky Linux has taken. 1: https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/furthering-evolution-centos-s... 2: https://almalinux.org/blog/f…

Yeah Alma is a much better option if you care about the behavior and attitudes of the people behind the project.

The Rocky people are antagonistic toward Red Hat and view them as somewhat an enemy (which seems so weird to me as without Red Hat, they couldn't possibly exist). They strictly want to take what Red Hat sells and rebuild and distribute it for free.

The Alma people on the other hand view themselves as partners and contributors to Red Hat's ecosystem. They want to make their product available for free, but they upstream as much as possible and add actual value to the ecosystem.

If you don't care about any of that, it's still better to choose Alma IMHO because their approach (following the letter and spirit of "the law") is a lot more sustainable than Rocky's exploit-the-system approach.

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