YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#131

Post by barnabee » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 2:33 PM UTC

xrd wrote: post #125

jadbox wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in digital rights management for YouTube media, and (dare I say) it is far from being pretty good. Claimers can basically deny revenue to uploaded videos for months at a time while the dispute process is occuring. This period is a killzone as many content creators often rely on both the timing and month-to-month revenue to pay bills (content creation doesn't pay well to begin with). The end effect is that…

This is a powerful indictment and should not be missed. I recently read an article about how video games shops don't need to worry about any kind of copying. The reason is that most video games make the lion share of their money in the first few months, and then it tapers off significantly. So, you can copy ideas, styles, and whatever, but it won't dampen opportunities for the original work to make money, so don't wo…

100% this

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#132

Post by that_guy_iain » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 2:36 PM UTC

orra wrote: post #70

that_guy_iain wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the content id system there? Oh right to make sure they don't get sued to shit.

Content ID is not required for YouTube to be protected by Safe Harbor.

So you think they built it for the sake of it? No. They literally built it because of all the legal shit they were dealing with. They were literally getting sued and this was their response. Copyright laws requires you put in reasonable efforts and if you're making billions and have thousands of engineers reasonable is not the same as what is reasonable for a company with 40 engineers.

I always find it gobsmacking that people seem so unaware of why YouTube's copyright system exists in the way it exists. Especially in communities like this where everyone is really full of themselves thinking this is an intellectual space yet here we are. Thinking ContentID wasn't created to sheild YouTube from legal claims.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#133

Post by Log_out_ » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 2:39 PM UTC

skummetmaelk wrote: post #54

fermigier wrote: post #30

"Here's my favorite example, here: 1928, my hero, Walt Disney, created this extraordinary work, the birth of Mickey Mouse in the form of Steamboat Willie. But what you probably don't recognize about Steamboat Willie and his emergence into Mickey Mouse is that in 1928, Walt Disney, to use the language of the Disney Corporation today, "stole" Willie from Buster Keaton's "Steamboat Bill." It was a parody, a take-off; it…

Take what you can, give nothing back. Apparently.

Very piracy, but okay for the big guy.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#134

Post by KMag » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 2:42 PM UTC

anon84873628 wrote: post #65

kitsune_ wrote: post #35

From a moral philosophy perspective, corporations like Google display a concerning ethical imbalance when they fail to proactively uphold the common good in scenarios where there's no direct financial benefit. A question to HN, since there are a ton of Googlers on here, what are the justifications of those who work within such organizations, particularly when there are other companies that seem to manage a better bal…

Are other companies really any better? Where can you work that is definitively "morally pure" and have such reliable income and comfortable lifestyle? (Or even in the same ballpark?) It's pretty much the same question as asking why everyone doesn't go work for non profits or NGOs. Or move away from the US and stop supporting bad US government behavior with our taxes...

> Or move away from the US and stop supporting bad US government behavior with our taxes...

As long as you're a US citizen or green card holder, moving away from the US won't stop the US from taxing all of the money you make anywhere in the world. Giving up citizenship for tax reasons is also illegal and can get you a lifetime ban on re-entering the US.

Edit: with the very important caveat of Puerto Rico. I'm not a lawyer or accountant, but my understanding is that residents of Puerto Rico don't have to pay federal income tax.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#135

Post by nsagent » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 2:43 PM UTC

kriops wrote: post #124

zanellato19 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A corporation is a collection of people. If these people are doing immoral actions, so is the corporation. Everything that happens by human action is moral or immoral.

How do you suppose one should aggregate the contributions from all the different stakeholders? I don’t think you can.

It seems you might be arguing a that it's untenable to account for individual actions. While a precise measurement is certainly infeasible, there are numerous philosophical frameworks that look to aggregate morality on a scale that can be compared, e.g. Utilitarianism and Consequentialism.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#136

Post by furyofantares » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 2:46 PM UTC

fermigier wrote: post #30

"Here's my favorite example, here: 1928, my hero, Walt Disney, created this extraordinary work, the birth of Mickey Mouse in the form of Steamboat Willie. But what you probably don't recognize about Steamboat Willie and his emergence into Mickey Mouse is that in 1928, Walt Disney, to use the language of the Disney Corporation today, "stole" Willie from Buster Keaton's "Steamboat Bill." It was a parody, a take-off; it…

This looks false, the Buster Keaton film was released the same year, not 14 years earlier, according to wikipedia. And both were inspired by an 18 year old song, Steamboat Bill, which Mickey whistles at the start.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#137

Post by Log_out_ » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 2:47 PM UTC

sbergot wrote: post #76

nmz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody should keep their children far from morals? What?

In the original stories the bad guys are punished in a cruel and horrible way. Like forced to dance with red-hot iron shoes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goose_Girl

Similar grim

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#138

Post by danaris » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 2:50 PM UTC

furyofantares wrote: post #136

fermigier wrote: post #30

"Here's my favorite example, here: 1928, my hero, Walt Disney, created this extraordinary work, the birth of Mickey Mouse in the form of Steamboat Willie. But what you probably don't recognize about Steamboat Willie and his emergence into Mickey Mouse is that in 1928, Walt Disney, to use the language of the Disney Corporation today, "stole" Willie from Buster Keaton's "Steamboat Bill." It was a parody, a take-off; it…

This looks false, the Buster Keaton film was released the same year, not 14 years earlier, according to wikipedia. And both were inspired by an 18 year old song, Steamboat Bill, which Mickey whistles at the start.

You have misread the post: it explicitly says that Steamboat Bill was released the same year, "no waiting 14 years"—as in, they didn't wait for the copyright to expire.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#139

Post by AkBKukU » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 2:51 PM UTC

trogdor wrote: post #129

AkBKukU wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also make my living from Youtube and I would strongly disagree that it is fair. On the absolute most simple basis, false claims can be damaging to the creator but the same false claims are completely risk free to the issuers. The problem shown in the OP is an additional layer of complexity where another company is contacting the creator on behalf of Disney which muddies the waters on who exactly is filing the claim…

>I also make my living from Youtube and I would strongly disagree that it is fair >The only thing in the Content ID system that is built in favor of the creator is if the claim issuer doesn't progress the counter claim and it is automatically dismissed. Fairness doesn’t mean that the system should be stacked in favor of anyone who uploads a video. I get that copyright is a controversial subject, but both Content ID a…

> Fairness doesn’t mean that the system should be stacked in favor of anyone who uploads a video.

Agreed, however if a creator repeatedly violates copyright and gets the three Copyright strikes (which I recognize are distinct while will related to claims) it is deleted. For the the issuer though. there is no penalty for invalid copyright removal requests. This is the type of unfairness that is an issue. Additionally, the claim issuer needs zero proof they even have the right to file a claim. The DMCA is mostly unfair to the companies that host the content forcing them act against the uploader and have zero ability to push back against bad faith actors. So the system Google has implemented can only legally pass the problem onto the content creators.

> Do you have any evidence that a claim negatively impacts search and discovery?

No. Can anyone truly have a confident stance that X == Y when it comes to how Youtube presents videos to potential viewers through its black box "algorithm"? I've seen plenty of inexplicable things happen with video recommendations as both a creator and viewer that both make me question what can/can't influence and never make an absolute statement about it, hence the "likely".

> that sounds to me like a very pro-creator outcome

You glanced over the unfair part there. Having 10s of music audio in a 10m video because you walked past a restaurant while filming a conversation can cause drastically disproportionate amounts of revenue to go to the claimant. This part is Google's fault and is an overreaction erring on the side of caution to appease the claim issuers.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#140

Post by deelowe » Fri, Jan 05, 2024, 3:02 PM UTC

kitsune_ wrote: post #35

From a moral philosophy perspective, corporations like Google display a concerning ethical imbalance when they fail to proactively uphold the common good in scenarios where there's no direct financial benefit. A question to HN, since there are a ton of Googlers on here, what are the justifications of those who work within such organizations, particularly when there are other companies that seem to manage a better bal…

Google has two options here:

1) Accept all take down notices at face value and let the courts handle disputes

2) Become a mediator and open themselves up for liability

It's no surprise Google chooses option 1 given the scale they must operate at. It's a consequence of the legal system which makes Google liable for not taking action immediately on valid claims, but also making it such validity not determined until after claims have been reviewed by the courts.